[pp.int.general] La Quadrature du Net: Amendment 138 dead by lack of courage of the Parliament

Fri Oct 23 11:55:31 CEST 2009

We can do that, but as I explained the Council does as they wish so it is
important to preasure them by using media attention so we should explain the
situation for each national PP so it gets published on there sites, blog our
asses off and post press releases to newspapers! I think this is the _KEY_
to make a difference is to MAKE SOME NOICE!

- Nicolas

2009/10/23 Błażej Kaczorowski <blazej.kaczorowski at gmail.com>

> We should contact our Council of the European Union and Members of the
> European
> Parliament that will be in reconciliation commite in 2 nov. To get their
> comments and pressure them to make sure that we will courts involved in
> cutting down internet users if they break some laws.
>
> BR,
> Blazej
> PP POland
>
> 2009/10/23 Nicolas Sahlqvist <nicco77 at gmail.com>
>
> I also have a bad feeling about it and what you say is concerning, but I am
>> chasing more extensive arguments. In PPSE's principle 3.3 program (not yet
>> translated to English) a quick translation gives us:
>> "Pirate Party does not consider the fact that Sweden is a member of the
>> EU, but now that we are there we have the right to require it to be
>> democratic. The democratic deficit in the EU must eventually be addressed,
>> and the first step is to prevent it from being perpetuated by ill-considered
>> constitutional. The draft EU constitution that Dutch and French voted no to
>> the should not adopted, either in its original form or with cosmetic changes
>> such as the Lisbon Treaty as Ireland voted no to."
>>
>> http://www.piratpartiet.se/principer
>>
>> On the 26th of April CE populated his blog a month before the EU election
>> in Sweden with loads of arguments such as it is a jungle of rules where new
>> rules are added on a regular basis making it even more complex, this makes
>> the whole thing unreadable and we should not agree or even sign something
>> that we can't comprehend. He continues to dismantle the argument that it
>> makes EU more democratic by saying the changes are just cosmetic. He also
>> describes the case of process of implementing a EU-directive for software
>> patents that he worked against as a activist in 2004-2005:
>>
>> "It has been suggested that the new Lisbon Treaty would give the EU
>> Parliament more power because more questions would be taken under the rules
>> of "codecision procedure". It is the variant that gives parliament the
>> greatest influence. But the software patents issue which I followed was
>> already such an issue. And it turned out that Parliament had been extremely
>> difficult get their way anyway because the voting rules in the "second
>> reading" is designed so that it is almost impossible for Parliament to go
>> against the Commission and Council. (Now, it worked this time, but it was
>> really a lucky strike.)
>>
>> It has also been suggested that national parliaments would have more power
>> because they must be able to comment after the political agreement reached
>> in Council, but before it is formally adopted. But when several national
>> parliament wanted to pull the emergency brake on the issue of software
>> patents they were told by the EU that a political agreement could not be
>> changed and the formal decision just was just a formality. There was not
>> even any reason to take the formal decision at a meeting with the correct
>> ministers, but the decision on software patents was taken by the Ministers
>> of Fisheries. This is how things are done in EU.
>>
>> So when two of the main arguments for the new constitution / Lisbon Treaty
>> proves to be untrue or at least substantially exaggerated, then I think it
>> is enough to be skeptical about the rest too."
>>
>> He also wrote blogs on how the democratic deficit is caused by
>> the Parliament listens while the Council just runs them over as they are
>> currently doing with the Telecom package Amendment 138 and how corrupt the
>> process of electing a EU president since it is a exclusive power elite
>> choosing. The process explained in a quote from Henrik Brors (Swedish
>> political journalist):
>>
>> "One thing however is right with Tony Blair, he has for several years been
>> part of the Group of Heads of State and Government in Europe that have
>> gotten to know each other well. It is only those who have a chance at this
>> job."
>>
>> The last argument is addressing the current situation of the Lisbon
>> Treaty (quick translation again where I slightly changed the first sentence
>> in order to avoid quoting several other paragraphs):
>>
>> "If they manage to push through Lisbon the the existing structures will be
>> cemented, in the worst case for a long time. The same structures that gave
>> us a stronger copyright protection extended periods, IPRED, Data retention
>> directive, Acta, Future Group, PNR proposal (Passenger Name Record) and the
>> telecoms package. To name a few."
>>
>>
>> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/replikskifte-om-lissabonfordraget/
>>
>> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/ett-bra-nej-for-europa-igen/
>>
>> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/eus-demokratiska-underskott-i-praktiken/
>> http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/att-utse-eus-president/
>>
>> Phew, that took some time.. We still need to find out details how this
>> will affect our issues in practice, who is up for making a analyze of the
>> 272 pages Lisbon Treaty?
>>
>> http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/full_text/index_en.htm
>>
>>
>> - Nicolas
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Jeremy Morton <admin at game-point.net>wrote:
>>
>>> I have baaad feelings about Lisbon passing.  It's going to weaken the
>>> power of the member states, and hand more to the European executive, an
>>> organization I don't even see the need for.  What a shame our political
>>> system allows Labour to cling on to power until it's too late.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jeremy Morton (Jez)
>>>
>>> Nicolas Sahlqvist wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does the treaty of Lisbon have any effect on this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Nicolas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:22 AM, El Tres <pirat at eltres.de
>>>> <mailto:pirat at eltres.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Am 23.10.2009 um 00:16 schrieb Eric Priezkalns
>>>>    <eric.priezkalns at pirateparty.org.uk
>>>>    <mailto:eric.priezkalns at pirateparty.org.uk>>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        [UK]   A constitution may exist, even if it is unwritten.  Such
>>>>        a constitution may be stronger than one written on a piece of
>>>>        paper, but where people don't do what the words on the paper say.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Hear, Hear!
>>>>
>>>>    El Tres
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ____________________________________________________
>>>>    Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>>    pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>    <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>>>    http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
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>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
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>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
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