[pp.int.general] GOODBYE!

[Justus Ršoemeth]

Appearantly (as can be read on the Dutch mailing liist) This is becausde 
of the incident described in the following report: 
http://kalthras.wordpress.com/ (in dutch only)
It's written by a Dutch (or Flemish) student of journalism who's 
following the pirates at the PPI conference. He went with them to the 
social gathering, where he had some, according to him, relaxed 
conversations with a few pirates, until he came to stand next to 
Reinier, who asked him "in an agressive tone" why was still with them. 
The journalist was a bit perplexed by that question and asked back what 
Reinier thought the reason was he would be following him (sounds more 
wiseass in English than in Dutch somehow), and as an answer Reinier 
pushed or threw him on the ground.
Apparently other pirates and the bar staff quickly went between the two 
and tried to calm Reinier, but, as witnessed on this mailing list, that 
didn't help much. According to the article Reinier is no longer on the 
list of candidates (he was #3 if my memory serves me right) for the 
upcoming Dutch election.
I'd be interested in hearing Reinier's version of the story as well as 
those of the other pirates that were at the meeting.

Cheers
Justus


On 17.04.10 08:34, aloa5 wrote:
> Hello Reinier.
>
> Keep cool. I don´t know what happened there. But be sure that Pirates 
> will be more careful what they say or do after the first time 
> somethink like this you mentioned happened.
>
> In Germany we have both. We have an open forum, somehow open 
> mailing-lists and the meetings (telefon conferences) of the board 
> members are not really closed. But there are also places(tm) wich are 
> only open for some (e.g. about finances).
>
> Open discussions are a nice to have. The question is the way in wich 
> it ist "open". Open to journalists is only one side. To be open in 
> speech is the other side. The more journalists are present in meetings 
> the more some (interesting) details and talk-rounds will be hold aside 
> the bigger meetings in a café or somewhere else. Perhaps we can have 
> both ways (both "open"). Perhaps we must have them.
>
> You have an attorney of copyright owners at you mailing-list. This is 
> one hand (in Germany too). The other hand exists in NL as in GER. And 
> that is the way it has to (and will) go in future.
>
> Journalists as such are friends and(!) enemies. We cannot live without 
> them - but that means not that we should tell them all we know....
>
>
> Best regards
> Otmar aloas aloa5
>
>
>
>
> Reinier Bakels schrieb:
>> I have noted today that the PPI has very naive ideas about 
>> "transparency", allowing journalists to participate in any PP meeting 
>> they like. Reality is that journalists make a business by serving 
>> their audience, not the people they report about. The audience is 
>> often not interested in a precise, "scientific" account, but in 
>> controversies, scandals etc.
>>
>> It is something for intellectuals to foster "open debates". Politics 
>> basically are business, which means that you only trust someone if it 
>> is in your own interest. Other perceptions are naive.
>>
>> On the Dutch PP mailing list is an attorney that supports copyright 
>> owners. This is really tough business. He already put me under moral 
>> pressure (in vain, because I am really independent), and I am sure he 
>> will exploit all and any weaknesses of Pirates in his efforts to 
>> serve his clients.
>>
>> Are all Pirates really naive? Or are there perhaps (other) trolls 
>> among us? It all depends on trust. I don't trust someone who has 
>> *obviously* conflicting interests.
>>
>> When I worked in private business, it was always strictly forbidden 
>> to me to talk to journalists. Well, you may be forced to talk to the 
>> to say "no", but then I was required to report to management 
>> immediately. Was this a violation of the principles of a free press? 
>> No, it is the consequence of a *realistic* perception of the basic 
>> conflict of interest between journalists and the people they report 
>> about. Whether you are in business or in politics, you want to 
>> achieve results. So you fight anyone obstructing your work.
>>
>> It is totally naive to invite your ennemy and sit with your in an 
>> informal setting to have a beer. You may /pretend /an informal 
>> setting, but then it is still to/ work /on your objectives.
>> GOOD LUCK! GOOD BYE!
>> All wars are dirty in a sense. I won't be part of this
>> Groeten, Grüße, Regards, Cordialement, Hälsningar, Ciao, Saygilar, 
>> Üdvözlettel, Pozdrowienia, Kumusta, Adiós, Oan't sjen, Ave, Doei, 
>> Yassou, Yoroshiku, Slán, Vinarliga, Kær Kveðja
>> >>> REINIER B. BAKELS PhD LL.M. MSc
>> private: Johan Willem Frisostraat 149, 2713 CC Zoetermeer, The 
>> Netherlands telephone: +31 79 316 3126, GSM ("Handy") +31 6 4988 
>> 6490,  fax +31 79 316 7221
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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