Utan titel

from doing stuff by just verbaly, or by writing, prevent you from
doing stuff.

If someone would tell me my 10 cents was worth nothing, I would simply
ignore it.

Either you talk the talk, or you walk the walk. An email can't stop
anything - it can only start everyting.

/Erik

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Travis McCrea
<travis.mccrea at pirate-party.us> wrote:
> Sorry to grave dig an old thread, but I would love to put my two cents in=
to
> this conversation..
> Andrew Norton has always been a sniffling know-it-all (who actually knows
> crap), and is one of the biggest factors to why the Untied States Pirate
> Party is where it is (the other of course being the United States' insane
> laws regarding political parties). He hardly represents the actual though=
t
> process that the United States Pirate Party has, so hopefully none of you
> base your opinion on us, based on him.
> The arguments you raise in this discussion, are the same ones that we hav=
e
> been having in our IRC channel, and the reason why there are not many peo=
ple
> of real=A0talent=A0and background stepping forward to do anything. He mak=
es our
> party, and he makes PPI look like a joke.
> I know this sounds like I am fighting negativity with more negativity... =
but
> seriously... every time in both PPI and in USPP affairs anyone ever takes
> the=A0initiative=A0to do something great, I always see him being the firs=
t one
> to try and make them look like an idiot. There are others too, but Andrew
> Norton is by far the worst of them. We are a small group in politics, eve=
n
> as a whole collective we make up fractions of voters... we don't need to
> have anyone (not just Andrew) always being the negative nancy... we need =
to
> support each other and make this an enjoyable party to be part of. It's
> emotionally taxing on anyone who cares about the party, to know how
> important our goals are, and how little people are paying attention to th=
em,
> or voting for the same corrupt powers that are in place. When you work so
> hard, and give so much of your personal time to help the cause, the last
> thing you want is to be mocked, insulted, etc. by someone on your own sid=
e.
> We need to stand together, the whole PPI... Its funny that for a Politica=
l
> Party whose main focus it is to share ideas, we don't really share much
> between parties (at least not much that I have seen). I have been working=
 to
> build the bond between the US and Canadian parties, which has shown some
> success... but its still not fully there. Then when people DO share ideas=
,
> they get harassed. Thats not acceptable... of course you have your free
> speech, I am not saying that we should=A0censor=A0these people... but the=
se
> people should be made aware that their words and actions are not helping
> anyone.
>
> Travis McCrea
> Volunteer - USPP
> 1(206)552-TRAV (8728)
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Erik L=F6nroth <erik.lonroth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Seems to me that some people are trying to form a top-down
>> organization, on a bottom-up body.
>>
>> If something is to be formed at all, an organization that better
>> resembles whats going on is needed.
>>
>> I'm having a BBQ on Saturday in S=F6dert=E4lje, Sweden, you are all invi=
ted.
>>
>> /Erik
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Brendan Molloy
>> <brendanmolloy at pirateparty.org.au> wrote:
>> > Judging by what I've read and my experience of watching PPI evolve,
>> > perhaps this is more of a case of 'biting off more than can be chewed'
>> > than incompetence. I'd imagine organising an international
>> > organisation with very little funds and initially no clear goal to be
>> > a slow and difficult process.
>> >
>> > So yes, while I understand the criticisms by Andrew, perhaps instead
>> > of simply laying blame upon the board for inaction or incompetence, an
>> > open discussion with the board about the problems they are facing with
>> > development of PPI and what we can do to help is in order.
>> >
>> > If after these discussions no clear resolution can be found, maybe we
>> > consider restructuring PPI to better suit the workload so that a more
>> > rigid delegation of tasks takes place and responsibilities are clearly
>> > defined.
>> >
>> > However, on the note of statutes, that was a massive screw up without
>> > a doubt, but it happens and can be resolved in the future. What is
>> > important is remembering that what will make PPI succeed is not the
>> > board but the members.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6 October 2010 10:57, Rodrigo Pereira <rodrigo2kpereira at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> I agree kenneth,
>> >>
>> >> I think a positive way is organize the the next conference and learn =
by
>> >> errors of PPI. I think Andrew have their reasons and this will be
>> >> considered
>> >> in the next conference, I hope.=A0 I have the intention to be present=
 in
>> >> the
>> >> next conference despite the fact of pirate party of Brazil is passing
>> >> by the
>> >> same obstacles like bureaucracy and difficult to do things clear. I
>> >> have
>> >> many ideas about PPI that I plan expose on the next conference.
>> >>
>> >> Now, I propose that PPI use your statutes-based banking account to
>> >> raise
>> >> funds to the next conference. This don't need to be passed by 3 ou 5
>> >> IRC
>> >> meetings, this is a permanent work. I don't have news about PPI's
>> >> money, Is
>> >> ZERO? It is? No problem, we can start raise funds now. PPI is silent =
in
>> >> many
>> >> points and I can't stand this.
>> >>
>> >> So PPI board, I beg, start raise funds and give the chance for the ne=
xt
>> >> conference whatever the place. Help to organize the next conference.
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >>
>> >> Rodrigo Pereira
>> >> Brazil
>> >>
>> >> 2010/10/5 Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >>> Hash: SHA1
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/5/2010 5:53 PM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:
>> >>> > Andrew,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > =A0 =A0 Maybe it's my current headache, however, this is the third=
 time
>> >>> > in
>> >>> > few days that I wanted to tell you something, and finally here we
>> >>> > goes.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > =A0 =A0 Can you try to build instead of destroy? Are you always li=
ke
>> >>> > this?
>> >>>
>> >>> You see the PPI, I helped build it (I was it's first head)
>> >>> You see the PPUS ,I helped build that (also it's first 'head' when i=
t
>> >>> was established formally, rather than as just a group of people)
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > =A0 =A0 As you can see, I am getting rid of your attitude, maybe y=
ou can
>> >>> > be
>> >>> > right in some things, but you fail as a whole.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > =A0 =A0 =A0I'm not at the PPI board at all, but as a member of thi=
s list,
>> >>> > it's
>> >>> > quite obvious that you're not positively contributing to anything.
>> >>> > Can I
>> >>> > ask you something? is there any other pirate in the US who is a ki=
nd
>> >>> > person so he/she can replace you in this list?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > =A0 =A0 If you have something to purpose, do it. If you have any i=
ssue,
>> >>> > politely ask for help/fix. But if you only want to troll, please,
>> >>> > shout
>> >>> > up.
>> >>> >
>> >>> I have issues. I have issues with how PPI is run. and I did make a
>> >>> proposal. I proposed, 10 days ago, that the board act like big boys,
>> >>> and
>> >>> stand behind their actions, and honestly judge themselves, as they
>> >>> would
>> >>> judge others.
>> >>>
>> >>> Frankly, if you don't like people being called out for their actions=
,
>> >>> and publicly shamed for them (because there's no other way, it seems=
,
>> >>> to
>> >>> replace the board this side of April, except by shaming them with
>> >>> their
>> >>> (in)actions into resigning) then you might want to take your toys, a=
nd
>> >>> go home. Or is it ok for you to do that to established politicians,
>> >>> but
>> >>> not to those that CLAIM to support the same things.
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrew
>> >>>
>> >>> (and there's other US pirates on here, but none have the years of
>> >>> experience of dealing with this list and the people on it, as I have=
,
>> >>> nor am I alone in my dissatisfaction)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Regards,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Kenneth
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Al 05/10/10 23:33, En/na Andrew Norton ha escrit:
>> >>> >> PPI Incompetence shines through again.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> - From todays meeting
>> >>> >> http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board_Minutes_2010-10-05
>> >>> >> "PP-US: we are certain that we did not got any confimation from
>> >>> >> USPP
>> >>> >> after the conference regarding their PPI Membership. They are mor=
e
>> >>> >> than
>> >>> >> welcome to submit an application for Membership for the next
>> >>> >> conference,
>> >>> >> though. "
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> They are certain. They're so certain, they've not asked us for an=
y
>> >>> >> kind
>> >>> >> of information on it. Not a single 'well, how and when did you
>> >>> >> submit
>> >>> >> it?' - kinda hard to be certain. For all they know, it was
>> >>> >> accidentally
>> >>> >> misfiled as spam and deleted.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> What we have again is the current PPI board trying to gloss over
>> >>> >> their
>> >>> >> failings in basic activities. after a 30 second check of their
>> >>> >> inbox,
>> >>> >> they're *certain* - probably the same certain, that Gregory was
>> >>> >> that
>> >>> >> we'd have the statutes before the conference (he's got a great
>> >>> >> track
>> >>> >> record)
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Let's also remind ourselves of our esteemed leader's goals for 20=
10
>> >>> >> if
>> >>> >> elected.
>> >>> >> Gregory
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> (http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Gregory_En=
gels.2C_Germany)
>> >>> >> "The goal is to strengthen and build support for the internationa=
l
>> >>> >> pirate movement - including giving kick-start to new pirate
>> >>> >> parties,
>> >>> >> and
>> >>> >> preparing a big international pirate conference. On the personal
>> >>> >> and
>> >>> >> more local side - to ensure that the Pirate Party of Hesse
>> >>> >> participates
>> >>> >> in the "foreigners elections" in November."
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Building support for hte international pirate movement. Anyone fe=
el
>> >>> >> supported?
>> >>> >> Kick start to new parties - can't say much there.
>> >>> >> Preparing a big international conference - Well, his goal for 201=
0
>> >>> >> here
>> >>> >> is completely busted. Not only is the next one now NOT in 2010, b=
ut
>> >>> >> he
>> >>> >> wants someone else to organise it.
>> >>> >> The Hesse election bit - well, this one pretty much violates the
>> >>> >> statutes he himself wrote.
>> >>> >> BOARD
>> >>> >> XII. Board
>> >>> >> (1) Pirate Parties International is managed by the Board, the
>> >>> >> executive
>> >>> >> organ. Its Members shall consider the interests of the Pirate
>> >>> >> Movement as a whole and shall neither consider themselves, nor be
>> >>> >> considered, as representing any particular Member or non-member
>> >>> >> Organization or Region.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> When he can't even run for the job in accordance with the rules f=
or
>> >>> >> the
>> >>> >> job he wrote, it's a clear sign of incompetence.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Jerry, our other co-president made the following campaign pledge
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> (http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Jerry_Weye=
r.2C_Luxembourg)
>> >>> >> "Establish Pirate Party in Luxembourg, provide the PPI with a leg=
al
>> >>> >> basis (statutes), increase international cooperation between pira=
te
>> >>> >> parties (with the help of PPI)"
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 3 items. The first ALSO falls foul of the statutes, mentioned in
>> >>> >> the
>> >>> >> second (the statutes which also have a significant lacking, as I'=
ll
>> >>> >> mention again, there is no means to remove a board member for she=
er
>> >>> >> incompetence - oversight, or deliberate, you judge), and the 3rd
>> >>> >> item
>> >>> >> he
>> >>> >> has also failed miserably at.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 10 days ago, I wrote an email, saying that the board needed to
>> >>> >> either
>> >>> >> get their backsides in gear and DO THEIR JOBS, or resign. There i=
s
>> >>> >> just
>> >>> >> under 2 weeks left. So far, nothing has changed. It's still
>> >>> >> 'looking
>> >>> >> for
>> >>> >> someone else to do xyz' and 30-second certainties.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> One of the reasons the Pirate Party started, is because people we=
re
>> >>> >> tired of politicians saying, and promising something, then not
>> >>> >> doing it
>> >>> >> or stabbing us in the back. Right now, that's EXACTLY the kind of
>> >>> >> people
>> >>> >> we have running the PPI. PPI as a concept is too important to lea=
ve
>> >>> >> to
>> >>> >> these incompetents, bumbling around like a political Inspector
>> >>> >> Clouseau.
>> >>> >> Right now, their pride, and their arrogance is hurting us all. If
>> >>> >> you
>> >>> >> can't handle the position (and you, collectively, have shown you
>> >>> >> can't)
>> >>> >> then step down, and let someone who can do so. No-one would think
>> >>> >> any
>> >>> >> less of you because of it. However, when you make a shoddy produc=
t,
>> >>> >> are
>> >>> >> called on it, and keep on making a shoddy product, then people DO
>> >>> >> think
>> >>> >> less of you.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> > ____________________________________________________
>> >>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.gener=
al
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ____________________________________________________
>> >>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.gener=
al
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> - --
>> >>> Andrew Norton
>> >>> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
>> >>> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>> >>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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>> >>> =3DXiOA
>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >>> ____________________________________________________
>> >>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________
>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Brendan Molloy
>> > Pirate Party Australia
>> >
>> > M: +61 434 069 776
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>