[pp.int.general] SHOCKING NEWS: Accused WikiLeaks ally is being tortured!

[Jay Emerson]

Um, you missed my point entirely.

I'm saying that what the law IS is entirely different from what procedures
the government will follow because they make up their own rules as they go
along to fit with what they WANT to do to a person.....but ya know what, i
don't care. You're right, whatever, not worth fighting over, let's agree to
stop flaming the email list.  Not the place.

Thanks in advance.

<3 Jay



On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com> wrote:

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> On 12/17/2010 8:11 PM, Jay Emerson wrote:
> > How it's SUPPOSED to be and how the government is gonna do it are 2
> > different things.  Let's not assume the government is going to comply
> > with SOP or feels obligated to do so.
> >
> > They could take him to an infamous "Black Site" or keep him in a special
> > brig on a ship in international waters.
>
> Again, Jay, you're confusing two things.
> that would be true if it were regular criminal law, which is based on
> location for jurisdiction. HOWEVER, irrespective (and actually,
> ESPECIALLY if he was in a ship's brig in international waters) as a
> member of the US military (which he will be until a court martial awards
> a dishonourable discharge) he is ALWAYS subject to the UCMJ. Here's
> another thing, those sites you talk about, they're also run by people
> who are under the authority of the UCMJ (unless it's entirely CIA... but
> they STILL use military guards) which means they're also liable for
> prosecution under the UCMJ, such as an Article 92 or 98, maybe (but
> probably not a A97) and at least for those issuing the orders, A133 or
> A134...
>
> I did give a link to the UCMJ already, perhaps you could try reading it...
>
> >
> > So yeah, there's that to think about.
> >
> > Jay Emerson
> > Administrative Officer
> > Pirate Party of New York
> >
> > On Dec 17, 2010 6:30 PM, "Andrew Norton" <ktetch at gmail.com
> > <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > On 12/17/2010 5:45 PM, Marcus Kesler wrote:
> >>>> One thing that we need to keep in mind is that PFC Manning is not
> facing
> >>>> trial in the same court as all other Americans. He is facing trial in
> >>>> Military Court, and as such the rules are different from what most of
> us
> >>>> are used to. Which does not justify the conditions of his current
> >>>> treatment of course.
> >
> > Exactly, from what I've read, Rules for Court Martial 707 says a trial
> > should be within 120 days.
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/17/2010 4:42 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> >>>>> I suggested to them that they change the demand of their petition.
> >>>>> Trials in the US take time, and I expect that the government is
> >>>>> preparing the prosecution. So the US has an easy response to this
> >>>>> petition: "We are giving him a trial, just wait and see."
> >
> > In a civilian trial, under state+federal laws, yes. Under the UCMJ,
> > that's not an option. One thing that's complicating it is that, if I
> > understand RCM's and JAG manuals right, there are 3 jobs in this.
> > There's an initial investigation, a prosecution, and a defense, and JAG
> > officers do all 3. I'm also told that often the officers that do the
> > invesitgation, also tend to be either then prosecute or defend (or both)
> >
> > I've put a call in to an old aquintance of mine (he was an Army MP
> > officer I used to play Delta Force 2/LW with online 8-9 years ago, see
> > if he's still in the military and get some facts out of him about
> > procedures)
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, that is no excuse for keeping Manning in such inhumane
> >>>>> conditions. It is normal in the US for the accused to get bail. They
> >>>>> should offer Bradley Manning bail.
> >
> > There is no bail in the military. If it's a minor crime, they're kept
> > with their unit, major one it's pre-trial confinement. That's the
> > military life.
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ____________________________________________________
> >>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> >>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> - --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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> ____________________________________________________
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> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>



-- 
Jay Emerson
Administrative Officer
New York Pirate Party

"My user has information that could...that could make this a free system
again! No, really! You'd have programs lined up just to use this place, and
no MCP looking over your shoulder." - Tron
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