[pp.int.general] /!\ Fwd: Re: [Algemeen] [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group (fwd) /!\

coretx at piratenpartij.nl coretx at piratenpartij.nl
Mon Mar 1 17:29:07 CET 2010

Time for action ! Our failsafe is under attack.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Algemeen] [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU
IPv6 Group (fwd)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:19:38 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sven Olaf Kamphuis <sven at cb3rob.net>
To: algemeen at lists.piratenpartij.nl, aktive at lists.piratenpartei.de

There you go.

let the riots commence 2.0....

keep in mind, most telcos and ISPs (the founders and members of the 
current IANA -> RIRS -> LIRs model resulting in a global internet which is 
hard to censor) do not agree on this ITU proposal...

it's just that the UN and their ITU do...

If we allow them to go forward, this WILL result in a "per country" 
easy-to-filter internet in a few years when ipv6 is the only serious 
protocol left.

we only need to point out how easy it was for the DDR to simply route
all phonecalls to "the west" through a room where people monitored 
telephone conversations, and this "country specific prefix" is just what 
the ITU seems to want for the internet.

In order to accomplish that they want to create their own address 
registry, for now "secondary" to the ISP/telco run bottom-down RIR system 
(RIPE,ARIN,APNIC,AFRINIC,APNIC) but ofcourse we can't expect it to take 
long before repressive governments start to force "the internets" "in 
their country" to use only the ITU registry...

also very nice of them to invite the "RIRS" to be present at their little 
negotiation rounds, where the RIRS can each have one vote against oh eh, 
150 or so of their members... very democratic.. 5 against 150..

And i bet you they'll go "yes but the RIRs were present at our meetings" 
in the end, so its better to just send them a letter telling them to stick 
it where the sun doesn't shine and not even go to their little meetings.

How does this relate to our situation in germany:

Now for those complaining about me posting to the piratenpartei lists in 
ENOTGERMAN, too bad for you people... the world is slightly larger than 
those 140 million or so people that use german on a daily basis.

I can personally assure you von der leyen and schaubele would have had wet 
dreams about this ITU proposal a few months ago still..., and you never 
know, we may get simular politicians again in the future...

(makes it -really- easy to filter all kinds of government-undesired 
content and activities...)

now -we- can always move our office to some other country and take our tax 
money to some other resort, not a biggie, but don't come complaining to me 
when germany at some point uses this to build their own chinese bigass 
golden firewall with flames coming out of its ass to make it faster.

i'd say its better to simply not give them the chance to do so.

methods available to isps/telcos to stop this:

- point out to governments that -we- own the internet, their economy runs 
over it as a "courtesy" and that we can send them back to the stoneage at 
any time we like by simply dropping 'their' traffic.

(considering the fact that governments themselves are not capable of 
running anything but a gray-cheese-with-a-dial telephone network, they 
don't have any other option than to remain friends with us, while -we- can 
move our business to -any- of the 208 countries or so worldwide, wether 
the UN likes those countries or not, and pay taxes -there-, and most of 
the likely candidates are nice and warm and have a beach too and are 
willing to make deals in the "guaranteed information freedom" aspect ;)

- if they get this done, simply ignore their registry, maybe introduce 

- if they get this done, drop the whole ipv6 implementation plans and move 
on to some "next" protocol or even keep ipv4 around if we have to.

they need us, we don't need them

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what has your country ever 
done for you.

we have the biggest stick in this matter.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:52:04 +0100
From: Michiel Ettema <MEttema at alkmaar.nl>
To: members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group

Maybe this will give you an insight in what is planned:

http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-d/oth/01/0B/D010B0000073301PDFE.pdf page

- 777
- 14.  As the use of the Internet and other new technologies increase,
- more criminals are provided with opportunities to commit crimes
- via telephone lines and data networks.  Presently, malicious
- code and harmful communications (such as child pornography) may pass
- through several carriers located in different countries.  And
- infrastructures such as banking and finance increasingly are becoming
- networked and thereby vulnerable to cyber-attack from distant
- We convene today to provide additional personal attention to and
- direction for our joint action against this transnational criminality.

If the ITU gets registry status I think it wil not be long before their
Cybercrime legislation proposals will state that the only safe adres
is ITU adres space. This because a country can subject that adres space
to their own laws.

Now excuse me a minute while I fold my tin foil hat.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net
[mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] Namens Arjan van der Oest
Verzonden: maandag 1 maart 2010 15:24
Aan: Andy Davidson; members-discuss at ripe.net; nanog at nanog.org
Onderwerp: RE: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6

Andy scribbled:

>>>> Competition is not a bad thing.
>>> Competition would be if I could approach the NCC or Pepsi Cola for
>>> integers for use on the internet.  It is not competition if the
>>> government makes me ask them for some integers.
>> Assuming that ITU would become a nationwide alternative RIR, you
>> have the choice to approach NCC, wouldn't you?
>Why would this automatically be the case ?  If governments were
>to distribute addresses via the national regulator, then the freedom of

>choice would NOT be the case.

True. Like I said in my initial reply to members-discuss (and while
playing a devil's advocate role), I'm not entirely sure what it is that
ITU is striving for : replacing IANA or just becoming a nationwide RIR.
In the latter case this would not automatically mean (also assuming that
local governments will not further interfere in this process) that ITU
would be your one and only one-stop-shop for integers.

But anyhow, don't get me wrong. I agree with all that has been said on
why and how ITU is trying to get a grip on packet switched communication
networks. My only point it that it might not be a bad idea to ponder on
the subject of allowing competition between RIR's in the same
geographical aerea and hence allow ITU to achieve the status of
nationwide RIR.

If Telco's want to request their IP's from ITU instead of RIPE, they
have my utterly blessings...

*zipping my Dr. Pepper*

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind Regards,
Worldmax Operations B.V.

Arjan van der Oest
Network Design Engineer

T.: +31 (0) 88 001 7912
F.: +31 (0) 88 001 7902
M.: +31 (0) 6 10 62 58 46

E.: arjan.van.der.oest at worldmax.nl
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