[pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback

[Choms]

El 22/11/2010, a las 16:00, Marcus Kesler escribió:

> Howdy, I am sorry if part of my response is due to a loss in
> translation. I realize that we are having this discussion in English
> and that many of the participants are form multiple countries.
> 
> If you want to compare the DoS with real world examples, then I think
> we need to make some distinctions clear:
> 
> DoS vs. Strike: A DoS is not the same as a strike. A strike is
> initiated by the employees that are refusing to work to lobby for a
> change. It is an action between employees and employer, not anything
> close to Anon vs. RIAA et al.

As long as I know, a General Strike is against state, not employees against their companies, so... what's the difference between a General Strike and a DDoS who protest against some laws (state) and companies (part of the power of the state)?

> 
> DoS v. Street protest: In my opinion, a DoS is also very different
> from a street protest. The real world equivalent would not be marching
> on the street, it would be sitting inside the doorway of the business
> and physically preventing customers who want to enter the store from
> doing so. You are not on public property anymore, you are actually
> entering the building. The requests have to reach the physical servers
> hosting the information, they do not only affect the connection (ie:
> street). Even in jurisdictions where protest are legal, even if a
> permit is required, you can still be charged with interfering with a
> business. And even if you protests are legal, if you enter a business
> to prevent customers from entering you can still be charged with
> breaking the law due to trespassing.

Inside the building? that, refereed to computers, it's called cracking... go inside a system and broke it from inside, ant yes, that is illegal... Make petitions from Outside to a server is more like ringing the bell for a lot of people at same time... so the people inside the building doesn't know if open the door or not... like the demonstration in front of MCU :P

So is erroneous your statement, is not private property (unless you think your internet line is private property of your ISP). Also, in a normal strike people also prevents workers and customers to enter the shop.

> 
> On the issue of "civil disobedience":
> 
> The United States Pirate Party, as well as the Pirate Party of
> Oklahoma, simply cannot condone any unlawful actions, even if we think
> that the laws are completely and utterly wrong. For the Pirate Party
> (in the US) to even appear to endorse these actions would mean the end
> of the Pirate Party (in the US). There is a reason why the Green Party
> in the US is not calling for a great "Smoke In", because it would mean
> the end of the Green Party. We can have a month long philosophical
> discussion about "is Anon right or not", but if it is illegal then the
> Pirate Party (in the United States) cannot condone these actions.

I agree with this part, but I refer to Stallman's mail... It's simply a distraction method... Payback is unrelated to any Pirate Party, why are you making a relationship between both groups sending a open letter about it? If is not our problem, why we have to intervene?

> 
> For me as the administrator of the Pirate Party of Oklahoma I fully
> support the letter asking Anon to stop, if for no other reason as to
> make it very clear that the PPOK will make sure that our activities
> are fully within the scope of the law.
> 
> For me it is not an action against Anon, it is an action to protect
> the Pirate Party in Oklahoma.

Really I understand you want to protect your PP, but you have to admit that the letter was unnecessary and offensive for that group. There's another ways (in the case that, after this conversation you still think that the letter was necessary) to say the same thing without offending people.

Salu2

> 
> Marcus Kesler
> Administrator
> Pirate Party of Oklahoma
>