[pp.int.general] PPI Failing, AGAIN
gregory.engels at pp-international.net
Wed Oct 6 13:40:37 CEST 2010
On 05.10.2010, at 23:33, Andrew Norton wrote:
> PPI Incompetence shines through again.
If you want to call this incompetence, it gives a lot of insight about
your concept of competence.
> - From todays meeting
> "PP-US: we are certain that we did not got any confimation from USPP
> after the conference regarding their PPI Membership. They are more
> welcome to submit an application for Membership for the next
> though. "
> They are certain. They're so certain, they've not asked us for any
> of information on it. Not a single 'well, how and when did you submit
> it?' - kinda hard to be certain. For all they know, it was
> misfiled as spam and deleted.
No, we are not thinking they were misfiled as spam and deleted, we
are certain of not having gotten them in the first place. I asked you
on the 27th of September to provide details regarding this one email -
what you have sen is a link to a wiki with an irc log, in that you
of not have joined the PPI, but announced the USPP boards general
consensus to sign the statutes. The minutes however do not give any
on who was appointed to do the actual signing, or to send the
signatures to the
PPI board. This minutes from the April 20th where posted to your wiki
on April 28th.
Since you have not provided the details where those signatures have been
signed to, we have spent some time and checked all the accounts that
have come into question, including mine and Jerry's and Joachim's
as well as Will's (who has administered the signing process during the
conference) and the general accounts of the board and co-chairmen as
Even IF we would have gotten the signatures at that time (10 days
conference or even now) - it would only possible mean that you are
for a PPI membership, since you admit it yourself that you have
joining the PPI straight away at the conference. PP-US has also not
participated in the board elections and have not casted any votes.
I do not see this being a big deal.
After all, most PPI membership privileges can only be executed during
the conference, and of cause the applicant members are entitled to send
in a delegation to the general assembly.
And yes, you are very welcome (as stated in the minutes that you are
to submit a membership application and also an offer to host the next
PPI Conference. (I myself can imagine that New-York as a place for the
for example can translate to significant transport advantages, cause
to new york are numerous and cheap from everywhere in the world)
> What we have again is the current PPI board trying to gloss over their
> failings in basic activities. after a 30 second check of their inbox,
> they're *certain* - probably the same certain, that Gregory was that
> we'd have the statutes before the conference (he's got a great track
As i said, we took 8 days to check all email accounts, and to go
the relevant (and irrelevant) irc-logs, the conference minutes, and have
asked all people who could have possibly have gotten this email. But no
success. Yes I am certain.
Regarding the Statutes - this agin seems to be a misconception, one that
you (and others) are repeating on every ocasion. Let me get this clear -
my task as a statutes task force leader before the conference was NOT
to write the statutes. It was to compile the suggestions that were the
results of the discussions on the task force - a discussion were more
than 50 people from 28 countries have participated. It was for the
assembly to decide which of those suggestion were ending up in the
statutes. The overall skeleton was ready, but the statutes itself were
wide open at the beginning of the conference - and it was a democratic
process, that we in europe are used to, to actually take a decision
on how the future PPI should be shaped.
I acknowledge that some of the proposed texts could have been finished
in a more timely manner, but that would not have saved noone from
discussing them at the conference. Also, in the end no one actually
did this work, so it was ended up all at my shoulders. It is just a
unfair to give me all the blame, but feel free to carry on, if this is
> Let's also remind ourselves of our esteemed leader's goals for 2010 if
> "The goal is to strengthen and build support for the international
> pirate movement - including giving kick-start to new pirate parties,
> preparing a big international pirate conference. On the personal and
> more local side - to ensure that the Pirate Party of Hesse
> in the "foreigners elections" in November."
> Building support for hte international pirate movement. Anyone feel
> Kick start to new parties - can't say much there.
I had personal and long consultations, including many many hours
on the telephone, with pirate parties of Kazakhstan, Russia, Latvia,
Moldavia, Georgia, Israel and Nepal. Also i had chat and mail
with PPs of Poland, Czech republic, Maldives, Ghana, UK, Brazil, Mexico
and Sweden. I am surely have forgotten a couple or two.
> Preparing a big international conference - Well, his goal for 2010
> is completely busted. Not only is the next one now NOT in 2010, but he
> wants someone else to organise it.
Please elaborate this some more - i can't follow you on this one. Our
are stating that the assembly is meet once a year, this mean that a
meeting must happen in 2011 since this year there already was one.
Our RFO does not state that a conference has to happen in 2011 - if
someone is feeling that a conference should happen during christmas
time, for example, we will take this offer into consideration.
> The Hesse election bit - well, this one pretty much violates the
> statutes he himself wrote.
> XII. Board
> (1) Pirate Parties International is managed by the Board, the
> organ. Its Members shall consider the interests of the Pirate
> Movement as a whole and shall neither consider themselves, nor be
> considered, as representing any particular Member or non-member
> Organization or Region.
Your statement is completely non-sense.
As i said - the participating in the "foreigners elections" was a
and local goal of me. (that i managed to achieve on a side note -
we got the access to the ballots), It is not that PPI is running
this election, nor that I turn into a representative of the city i
live in at the PPI. And by the way, the next one, since this one
is achieved (the elections will be held on November 7th), is
preparing the participation in municipal election next March.
> (the statutes which also have a significant lacking, as I'll
> mention again, there is no means to remove a board member for sheer
> incompetence - oversight, or deliberate, you judge),
Well, this is partly true, an is a clear defect in the statutes, and
is welcome to submit his proposed amendments to change this.
however, IX(2) states that "Extraordinary sessions [of the assembly]
can be held at the request of one third of the Members
or by a decision of the Board. "
That means, that currently a request from 8 Members is needed to
call for an extraordinary session of the assembly to elect new
Pirate Parties International
mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
jabber:dichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de
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