[pp.int.general] A Pirate Ideology

[Antonio Garcia]

I believe the Pirate Ideology has been clear to all right from the start, and that limiting its public scope to the few subjects those who came together mastered most was just a defensive move both to focus on what eveybody most agreed with, and also to have a "natural" barrier against the early incorporation of too many people with too different views on too many subjects, something that would have rendered the initiative soon unmanageable.

Sort of what is actually happening to the 15M-Indignados / Indignées / Occupy Wall Street / Occupy X movement... They started in Spain with a consensus around 4 points, but as too soon too many people with only a poor general background joined, it all went inevitably wrong. Everybody pushed to have his favourite subject on the consensus list, and the more it grew, the more consensus was rendered impossible. All they can do now, unless someone intervenes to set things straight, is to turn around in circles until everybody gives up sooner or later.

It also shows what the perils of liquid democracy are. While it is a perfect tool for a world with perfect people, we are far from achieving a perfect world. Representative democracy got abused, but horizontal asamblearism has structural prerequisites too, and can be as abused as any other tool.

Only knowing each other can we get to trust each other more. At this moment, some push for more knowledge, and some, knowing what is at stake for them (the lost of present advantages) push for concealment of their past.

Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:47:55 +0100
From: squig at dfpx.de
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] A Pirate Ideology

Coming from a humanities background, I think that some of the justifications you make in your text are too far-fetching, comming from something that seems-philosophical and natural-sciency all at once, I don't thionk that is really neccessary.

Other than that I agree, however. In the end we are for tw0 things, mainly: Freedom of information and speech (+safeguarding of civil rights, but that's almost the same in politics), and an overhaul of the political process.


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Philip Hunt <cabalamat at googlemail.com> wrote:

I think that the idea that knowledge is power, and therefore if we

want something approximating equality of power, then we must have

equality of knowledge, is one that most pirates would agree with.



I suspect that there is also broad agreement that liquid democracy is,

on the whole, a good idea.



Other that that, I expect that the way pirate ideology will develop is

that various pirate partiesd will expend their policies -- either

gradually or quickly -- and out of that process we'll find out that

pirates (defined as people attracyted to our core issues such as

copyright law etc) also have a lot more in common.



When the various pirate parties have large manifestoes they will also

copy each others ideas, and thus in a natural from-below way a set of

policies will emerge that different pirate parties agree on (of

course, we won't agree on everything, and that's OK). From that set of

policies, an underlying ideology will emerge.



That's not to say that it's pointless for you or Rick falkvinge or any

other Pirate to talk about or formulate ideologies; doing so is useful

because it give us an opportunity to reflect upon what we are, and can

lead us to propose particular policies,



--

Philip Hunt, <cabalamat at gmail.com>

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