[pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.

Wed Apr 4 20:05:35 CEST 2012

That is one of the problems we have to face when we respect the freedom of everyone, Thijs. When too many are not wise enough to behave in a civilized way, either you manage to have peace bowing to every individuals wishes and you try to do almost nothing that might start a debate, or you agree to behave according to certain rules and have structures to enforce them when necessary.

As long as everyone is not educated enough to behave wisely and in the groups interest, you can but choose to have the structure that will allow you to achieve your goals and live according to your ideals.

If it takes only one rotten apple to make you wish all stfu and settle things in sabre duels, it doesn't seem like you might have the much needed answer.

This kind of problems is going to surface over and over again, and eventually feed underlying rivalries and antagonisms until everything explodes, unless we learn how to deal with them and have the much needed patience their solution requires.

> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200
> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> CC: coa at pp-international.net; board at pp-international.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
> 
> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who
> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far too
> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both stfu
> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.
> 
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <choms at botmania.net> wrote:
> > Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the pastebin
> that
> > probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its uploaded
> on
> > my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
> > 
> > If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it
> without
> > problem.
> > 
> > I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no problems
> > with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
> > legislation, I've always defended transparency.
> > 
> > But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that I've
> been
> > one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done more
> > than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a working
> > infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
> > 
> > But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will
> always
> > defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's
> members.
> > On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George" <francisco.george at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> Dear Pirates,
> >>
> >> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike have
> >> been
> >> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his
> real
> >> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).
> Choms
> >> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
> >> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed in
> >> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to the
> >> PPI,
> >> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain
> false.
> >>
> >> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement
> concerning
> >> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists
> seem
> >> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is
> echoed
> >> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying to
> >> give
> >> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
> >> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex
> >> affiliate
> >> and his intentions towards PP-ES
> >>
> >>
> >> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside
> >> Pirata
> >> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To mention
> >> only
> >> some of them:
> >>
> >> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he
> launched
> >> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the affiliates.
> >>
> >> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff
> without
> >> giving any explanations for doing so.
> >>
> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
> >> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
> >>
> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the voting
> >> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting
> process.
> >> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the voting
> >> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
> >> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast doubts
> >> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same
> system
> >> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
> >> himself
> >> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
> >>
> >> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the current
> and
> >> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not
> >> prickly
> >> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with the
> >> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called
> "You
> >> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and directed
> >> to
> >> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less is
> >> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
> >>
> >> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to twitter,
> >> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories about
> >> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
> >> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
> >> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
> >>
> >>
> >> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been
> >> threatening
> >> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of legal
> >> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal threads
> >> was
> >> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in a
> >> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
> >> designations
> >> together is a crime, in his case.
> >>
> >> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
> >>
> >> Now, the situation is that the Comité de Derechos y Garantías (CdDyG,
> >> the
> >> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to ask
> >> for
> >> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a
> person
> >> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned doings
> >> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group), and
> >> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the
> same
> >> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board (with
> no
> >> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General Assembly,
> >> that
> >> means, by all the affiliates.
> >>
> >> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for
> >> theirsuspension
> >> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
> >> temporary
> >> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure in
> his
> >> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
> >>
> >> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms has
> >> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the
> Directory
> >> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
> >> dismiss
> >> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to
> >> send a
> >> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
> >> themselves.
> >>
> >> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
> >> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume
> this
> >> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst trolls
> >> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board in
> >> the
> >> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
> >>
> >> PP-ES National Board
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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