[pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.

[thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl]

Hmm, let me nuance my statement in a way you cannot misunderstand.
Re-analyse my statement about sabre duels keeping in mind the following
definition:

hu·mor  (hymr)
n.
1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could
not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer
skilled at crafting humor.
3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical,
incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.
4. One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black
bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval
physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.
5. Physiology
a. A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.
b. Aqueous humor.
c. Vitreous humor.
6. A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen
humor.
7. An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.
8.
a. A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood1.
b. Capricious or peculiar behavior.
tr.v. hu·mored, hu·mor·ing, hu·mors
1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.
2. To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.
Idiom:
out of humor
In a bad mood; irritable.

Pay particular attention to Clause 2 of this definition when you try to
re-interpret my statement. Understand your ineptness when it comes to
clause 3, and learn, painstakingly, to deal with this. Not for me, but for
yourself.

As for your invitation to provide an answer: well, let the board and this
Choms guy both go their own way, it seems that this is merely a dispute
over the method of operation, not an ideological one. Clearly, when this
much energy is spend fighting one another, you're helping our opponents. 

Not knowing much details (I aint reading the novella's you guys share with
this mailing lis & I will personally shoot anyone who does (clause 2
applies to this later statement as well)), but having faced somewhat
similar character traits and disputes (inconclusive so far), I would say
the core of the issue is this: One guy thinks he's superman and demands to
do much more than he's capable off and then, after he has worked his ass
off, but failed to deliver the promised quality, gets people anger for
that. Then there is a board who writes nice and very wordy texts about the
affair but generally doesn't take on much work or risks, because they know
that wouldn't advance their personal 'carreer'.

So let superman fly solo, and tell the board to do something more usefull
than talking things over and writing paperwork. That said, I still much
prefer a sabre duel for it's superior entertainment value.

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:05:35 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> That is one of the problems we have to face when we respect the freedom
of
> everyone, Thijs. When too many are not wise enough to behave in a
civilized
> way, either you manage to have peace bowing to every individuals wishes
and
> you try to do almost nothing that might start a debate, or you agree to
> behave according to certain rules and have structures to enforce them
when
> necessary.
> 
> As long as everyone is not educated enough to behave wisely and in the
> groups interest, you can but choose to have the structure that will
allow
> you to achieve your goals and live according to your ideals.
> 
> If it takes only one rotten apple to make you wish all stfu and settle
> things in sabre duels, it doesn't seem like you might have the much
needed
> answer.
> 
> This kind of problems is going to surface over and over again, and
> eventually feed underlying rivalries and antagonisms until everything
> explodes, unless we learn how to deal with them and have the much needed
> patience their solution requires.
> 
> 
>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200
>> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> CC: coa at pp-international.net; board at pp-international.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
>> insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
>> 
>> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who
>> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far
too
>> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both
>> stfu
>> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.
>> 
>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <choms at botmania.net> wrote:
>> > Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the
pastebin
>> that
>> > probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its
uploaded
>> on
>> > my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
>> > 
>> > If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it
>> without
>> > problem.
>> > 
>> > I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no
>> > problems
>> > with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
>> > legislation, I've always defended transparency.
>> > 
>> > But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that
I've
>> been
>> > one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done
>> > more
>> > than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a
working
>> > infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
>> > 
>> > But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will
>> always
>> > defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's
>> members.
>> > On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George"
<francisco.george at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> >> Dear Pirates,
>> >>
>> >> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike
have
>> >> been
>> >> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his
>> real
>> >> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).
>> Choms
>> >> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
>> >> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed
>> >> in
>> >> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to
the
>> >> PPI,
>> >> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain
>> false.
>> >>
>> >> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement
>> concerning
>> >> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists
>> seem
>> >> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is
>> echoed
>> >> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying
to
>> >> give
>> >> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
>> >> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex
>> >> affiliate
>> >> and his intentions towards PP-ES
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside
>> >> Pirata
>> >> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To
mention
>> >> only
>> >> some of them:
>> >>
>> >> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he
>> launched
>> >> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the
affiliates.
>> >>
>> >> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff
>> without
>> >> giving any explanations for doing so.
>> >>
>> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
>> >> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
>> >>
>> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the
voting
>> >> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting
>> process.
>> >> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the
>> >> voting
>> >> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
>> >> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast
doubts
>> >> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same
>> system
>> >> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
>> >> himself
>> >> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
>> >>
>> >> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the
current
>> and
>> >> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not
>> >> prickly
>> >> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with
the
>> >> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called
>> "You
>> >> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and
>> >> directed
>> >> to
>> >> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less
is
>> >> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
>> >>
>> >> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to
twitter,
>> >> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories
>> >> about
>> >> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
>> >> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
>> >> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been
>> >> threatening
>> >> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of
legal
>> >> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal
threads
>> >> was
>> >> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in
a
>> >> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
>> >> designations
>> >> together is a crime, in his case.
>> >>
>> >> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
>> >>
>> >> Now, the situation is that the Comité de Derechos y Garantías
(CdDyG,
>> >> the
>> >> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to
ask
>> >> for
>> >> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a
>> person
>> >> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned
>> >> doings
>> >> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group),
>> >> and
>> >> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the
>> same
>> >> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board
(with
>> no
>> >> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General
Assembly,
>> >> that
>> >> means, by all the affiliates.
>> >>
>> >> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for
>> >> theirsuspension
>> >> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
>> >> temporary
>> >> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure
in
>> his
>> >> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
>> >>
>> >> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms
has
>> >> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the
>> Directory
>> >> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
>> >> dismiss
>> >> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to
>> >> send a
>> >> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
>> >> themselves.
>> >>
>> >> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
>> >> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume
>> this
>> >> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst
>> >> trolls
>> >> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board
in
>> >> the
>> >> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
>> >>
>> >> PP-ES National Board
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________
>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >>
>> >>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general