[pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.

Wed Apr 4 22:28:48 CEST 2012

In the end this is an internal Spanish thing for now, as far as I am
concerned...

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:07 PM, <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:

> Hmm, let me nuance my statement in a way you cannot misunderstand.
> Re-analyse my statement about sabre duels keeping in mind the following
> definition:
>
> hu·mor  (hymr)
> n.
> 1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could
> not see the humor of the situation.
> 2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer
> skilled at crafting humor.
> 3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical,
> incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.
> 4. One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black
> bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval
> physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.
> 5. Physiology
> a. A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.
> b. Aqueous humor.
> c. Vitreous humor.
> 6. A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen
> humor.
> 7. An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.
> 8.
> a. A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood1.
> b. Capricious or peculiar behavior.
> tr.v. hu·mored, hu·mor·ing, hu·mors
> 1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.
> 2. To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.
> Idiom:
> out of humor
> In a bad mood; irritable.
>
> Pay particular attention to Clause 2 of this definition when you try to
> re-interpret my statement. Understand your ineptness when it comes to
> clause 3, and learn, painstakingly, to deal with this. Not for me, but for
> yourself.
>
> As for your invitation to provide an answer: well, let the board and this
> Choms guy both go their own way, it seems that this is merely a dispute
> over the method of operation, not an ideological one. Clearly, when this
> much energy is spend fighting one another, you're helping our opponents.
>
> Not knowing much details (I aint reading the novella's you guys share with
> this mailing lis & I will personally shoot anyone who does (clause 2
> applies to this later statement as well)), but having faced somewhat
> similar character traits and disputes (inconclusive so far), I would say
> the core of the issue is this: One guy thinks he's superman and demands to
> do much more than he's capable off and then, after he has worked his ass
> off, but failed to deliver the promised quality, gets people anger for
> that. Then there is a board who writes nice and very wordy texts about the
> affair but generally doesn't take on much work or risks, because they know
> that wouldn't advance their personal 'carreer'.
>
> So let superman fly solo, and tell the board to do something more usefull
> than talking things over and writing paperwork. That said, I still much
> prefer a sabre duel for it's superior entertainment value.
>
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:05:35 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > That is one of the problems we have to face when we respect the freedom
> of
> > everyone, Thijs. When too many are not wise enough to behave in a
> civilized
> > way, either you manage to have peace bowing to every individuals wishes
> and
> > you try to do almost nothing that might start a debate, or you agree to
> > behave according to certain rules and have structures to enforce them
> when
> > necessary.
> >
> > As long as everyone is not educated enough to behave wisely and in the
> > groups interest, you can but choose to have the structure that will
> allow
> > you to achieve your goals and live according to your ideals.
> >
> > If it takes only one rotten apple to make you wish all stfu and settle
> > things in sabre duels, it doesn't seem like you might have the much
> needed
> > answer.
> >
> > This kind of problems is going to surface over and over again, and
> > eventually feed underlying rivalries and antagonisms until everything
> > explodes, unless we learn how to deal with them and have the much needed
> > patience their solution requires.
> >
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200
> >> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> CC: coa at pp-international.net; board at pp-international.net
> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
> >> insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
> >>
> >> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who
> >> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far
> too
> >> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both
> >> stfu
> >> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <choms at botmania.net> wrote:
> >> > Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the
> pastebin
> >> that
> >> > probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its
> uploaded
> >> on
> >> > my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
> >> >
> >> > If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it
> >> without
> >> > problem.
> >> >
> >> > I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no
> >> > problems
> >> > with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
> >> > legislation, I've always defended transparency.
> >> >
> >> > But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that
> I've
> >> been
> >> > one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done
> >> > more
> >> > than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a
> working
> >> > infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
> >> >
> >> > But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will
> >> always
> >> > defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's
> >> members.
> >> > On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George"
> <francisco.george at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Dear Pirates,
> >> >>
> >> >> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike
> have
> >> >> been
> >> >> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his
> >> real
> >> >> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).
> >> Choms
> >> >> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
> >> >> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed
> >> >> in
> >> >> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to
> the
> >> >> PPI,
> >> >> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain
> >> false.
> >> >>
> >> >> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement
> >> concerning
> >> >> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists
> >> seem
> >> >> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is
> >> echoed
> >> >> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying
> to
> >> >> give
> >> >> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
> >> >> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex
> >> >> affiliate
> >> >> and his intentions towards PP-ES
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside
> >> >> Pirata
> >> >> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To
> mention
> >> >> only
> >> >> some of them:
> >> >>
> >> >> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he
> >> launched
> >> >> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the
> affiliates.
> >> >>
> >> >> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff
> >> without
> >> >> giving any explanations for doing so.
> >> >>
> >> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
> >> >> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
> >> >>
> >> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the
> voting
> >> >> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting
> >> process.
> >> >> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the
> >> >> voting
> >> >> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
> >> >> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast
> doubts
> >> >> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same
> >> system
> >> >> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
> >> >> himself
> >> >> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
> >> >>
> >> >> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the
> current
> >> and
> >> >> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not
> >> >> prickly
> >> >> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with
> the
> >> >> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called
> >> "You
> >> >> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and
> >> >> directed
> >> >> to
> >> >> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less
> is
> >> >> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
> >> >>
> >> >> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to
> twitter,
> >> >> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories
> >> >> about
> >> >> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
> >> >> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
> >> >> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been
> >> >> threatening
> >> >> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of
> legal
> >> >> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal
> threads
> >> >> was
> >> >> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in
> a
> >> >> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
> >> >> designations
> >> >> together is a crime, in his case.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now, the situation is that the Comité de Derechos y Garantías
> (CdDyG,
> >> >> the
> >> >> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to
> ask
> >> >> for
> >> >> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a
> >> person
> >> >> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned
> >> >> doings
> >> >> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group),
> >> >> and
> >> >> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the
> >> same
> >> >> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board
> (with
> >> no
> >> >> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General
> Assembly,
> >> >> that
> >> >> means, by all the affiliates.
> >> >>
> >> >> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for
> >> >> theirsuspension
> >> >> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
> >> >> temporary
> >> >> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure
> in
> >> his
> >> >> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
> >> >>
> >> >> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms
> has
> >> >> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the
> >> Directory
> >> >> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
> >> >> dismiss
> >> >> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to
> >> >> send a
> >> >> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
> >> >> themselves.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
> >> >> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume
> >> this
> >> >> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst
> >> >> trolls
> >> >> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board
> in
> >> >> the
> >> >> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
> >> >>
> >> >> PP-ES National Board
> >> >>
> >> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
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