[pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.

[Marko Mitrovic]

Yup. And that is a reason why they should give some evidence or keep it
internal. At the moment this looks like random grudge with name calling.
On Apr 4, 2012 10:28 PM, "Justus Römeth" <squig at dfpx.de> wrote:

> In the end this is an internal Spanish thing for now, as far as I am
> concerned...
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:07 PM, <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, let me nuance my statement in a way you cannot misunderstand.
>> Re-analyse my statement about sabre duels keeping in mind the following
>> definition:
>>
>> hu·mor  (hymr)
>> n.
>> 1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could
>> not see the humor of the situation.
>> 2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer
>> skilled at crafting humor.
>> 3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical,
>> incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.
>> 4. One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black
>> bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval
>> physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.
>> 5. Physiology
>> a. A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.
>> b. Aqueous humor.
>> c. Vitreous humor.
>> 6. A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen
>> humor.
>> 7. An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.
>> 8.
>> a. A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood1.
>> b. Capricious or peculiar behavior.
>> tr.v. hu·mored, hu·mor·ing, hu·mors
>> 1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.
>> 2. To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.
>> Idiom:
>> out of humor
>> In a bad mood; irritable.
>>
>> Pay particular attention to Clause 2 of this definition when you try to
>> re-interpret my statement. Understand your ineptness when it comes to
>> clause 3, and learn, painstakingly, to deal with this. Not for me, but for
>> yourself.
>>
>> As for your invitation to provide an answer: well, let the board and this
>> Choms guy both go their own way, it seems that this is merely a dispute
>> over the method of operation, not an ideological one. Clearly, when this
>> much energy is spend fighting one another, you're helping our opponents.
>>
>> Not knowing much details (I aint reading the novella's you guys share with
>> this mailing lis & I will personally shoot anyone who does (clause 2
>> applies to this later statement as well)), but having faced somewhat
>> similar character traits and disputes (inconclusive so far), I would say
>> the core of the issue is this: One guy thinks he's superman and demands to
>> do much more than he's capable off and then, after he has worked his ass
>> off, but failed to deliver the promised quality, gets people anger for
>> that. Then there is a board who writes nice and very wordy texts about the
>> affair but generally doesn't take on much work or risks, because they know
>> that wouldn't advance their personal 'carreer'.
>>
>> So let superman fly solo, and tell the board to do something more usefull
>> than talking things over and writing paperwork. That said, I still much
>> prefer a sabre duel for it's superior entertainment value.
>>
>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:05:35 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com
>> >
>> wrote:
>> > That is one of the problems we have to face when we respect the freedom
>> of
>> > everyone, Thijs. When too many are not wise enough to behave in a
>> civilized
>> > way, either you manage to have peace bowing to every individuals wishes
>> and
>> > you try to do almost nothing that might start a debate, or you agree to
>> > behave according to certain rules and have structures to enforce them
>> when
>> > necessary.
>> >
>> > As long as everyone is not educated enough to behave wisely and in the
>> > groups interest, you can but choose to have the structure that will
>> allow
>> > you to achieve your goals and live according to your ideals.
>> >
>> > If it takes only one rotten apple to make you wish all stfu and settle
>> > things in sabre duels, it doesn't seem like you might have the much
>> needed
>> > answer.
>> >
>> > This kind of problems is going to surface over and over again, and
>> > eventually feed underlying rivalries and antagonisms until everything
>> > explodes, unless we learn how to deal with them and have the much needed
>> > patience their solution requires.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200
>> >> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> CC: coa at pp-international.net; board at pp-international.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
>> >> insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
>> >>
>> >> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who
>> >> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far
>> too
>> >> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both
>> >> stfu
>> >> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <choms at botmania.net> wrote:
>> >> > Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the
>> pastebin
>> >> that
>> >> > probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its
>> uploaded
>> >> on
>> >> > my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
>> >> >
>> >> > If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it
>> >> without
>> >> > problem.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no
>> >> > problems
>> >> > with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
>> >> > legislation, I've always defended transparency.
>> >> >
>> >> > But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that
>> I've
>> >> been
>> >> > one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done
>> >> > more
>> >> > than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a
>> working
>> >> > infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
>> >> >
>> >> > But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will
>> >> always
>> >> > defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's
>> >> members.
>> >> > On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George"
>> <francisco.george at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Dear Pirates,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike
>> have
>> >> >> been
>> >> >> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his
>> >> real
>> >> >> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).
>> >> Choms
>> >> >> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
>> >> >> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to
>> the
>> >> >> PPI,
>> >> >> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain
>> >> false.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement
>> >> concerning
>> >> >> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists
>> >> seem
>> >> >> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is
>> >> echoed
>> >> >> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying
>> to
>> >> >> give
>> >> >> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
>> >> >> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex
>> >> >> affiliate
>> >> >> and his intentions towards PP-ES
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside
>> >> >> Pirata
>> >> >> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To
>> mention
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> some of them:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he
>> >> launched
>> >> >> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the
>> affiliates.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff
>> >> without
>> >> >> giving any explanations for doing so.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
>> >> >> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the
>> voting
>> >> >> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting
>> >> process.
>> >> >> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the
>> >> >> voting
>> >> >> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
>> >> >> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast
>> doubts
>> >> >> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same
>> >> system
>> >> >> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
>> >> >> himself
>> >> >> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the
>> current
>> >> and
>> >> >> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not
>> >> >> prickly
>> >> >> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with
>> the
>> >> >> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called
>> >> "You
>> >> >> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and
>> >> >> directed
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less
>> is
>> >> >> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to
>> twitter,
>> >> >> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
>> >> >> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
>> >> >> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been
>> >> >> threatening
>> >> >> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of
>> legal
>> >> >> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal
>> threads
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in
>> a
>> >> >> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
>> >> >> designations
>> >> >> together is a crime, in his case.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now, the situation is that the Comité de Derechos y Garantías
>> (CdDyG,
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to
>> ask
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a
>> >> person
>> >> >> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned
>> >> >> doings
>> >> >> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group),
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the
>> >> same
>> >> >> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board
>> (with
>> >> no
>> >> >> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General
>> Assembly,
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> means, by all the affiliates.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for
>> >> >> theirsuspension
>> >> >> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
>> >> >> temporary
>> >> >> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure
>> in
>> >> his
>> >> >> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms
>> has
>> >> >> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the
>> >> Directory
>> >> >> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
>> >> >> dismiss
>> >> >> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to
>> >> >> send a
>> >> >> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
>> >> >> themselves.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
>> >> >> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume
>> >> this
>> >> >> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst
>> >> >> trolls
>> >> >> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board
>> in
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PP-ES National Board
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ____________________________________________________
>> >> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> >>
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________
>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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