[pp.int.general] pp.international.general Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14

Wed Apr 4 20:21:11 CEST 2012

Hey Thijs!

Agreed.  Please keep your internal issues out of the PPI threads.  Please.

Ax

On 4/4/12, pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net
<pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in accusing
>       PP-ES in the PPI list. (Francisco George)
>    2. Re: PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in
>       accusing PP-ES in the PPI list. (Choms)
>    3. Re: PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who insists in
>       accusing PP-ES in the PPI list. (thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:57:04 +0200
> From: Francisco George <francisco.george at gmail.com>
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Cc: coa at pp-international.net, board at pp-international.net
> Subject: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
> 	insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CANfKYYyKo8puxz_dCix-=uOPbGOYQoeVCz+rHLyXjFuUSX0sBw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Pirates,
>
> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike have been
> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his real
> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later). Choms
> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed in
> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to the PPI,
> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain false.
>
> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement concerning
> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists seem
> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is echoed
> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying to give
> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex affiliate
> and his intentions towards PP-ES
>
>
> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside Pirata
> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To mention only
> some of them:
>
> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he launched an
> unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the affiliates.
>
> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff without
> giving any explanations for doing so.
>
> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to fulfill
> any role during several weeks before.
>
> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the voting
> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting process.
> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the voting
> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast doubts
> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same system
> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he himself
> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
>
> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the current and
> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not prickly
> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with the
> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called "You
> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and directed to
> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less is
> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
>
> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to twitter, etc)
> full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories about Spain's
> Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his tweets, giving
> his side of the stoty in twitter:https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
>
>
> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been threatening
> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of legal
> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal threads was
> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in a
> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both designations
> together is a crime, in his case.
>
> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
>
> Now, the situation is that the Comit? de Derechos y Garant?as (CdDyG, the
> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to ask for
> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a person
> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned doings
> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group), and
> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the same
> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board (with no
> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General Assembly, that
> means, by all the affiliates.
>
> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for theirsuspension
> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to temporary
> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure in his
> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
>
> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms has
> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the Directory
> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will dismiss
> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to send a
> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
> themselves.
>
> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume this
> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst trolls
> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board in the
> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
>
> PP-ES National Board
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200
> From: Choms <choms at botmania.net>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> 	<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Cc: coa at pp-international.net, board at pp-international.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
> 	insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAN3V-dyjUKLis1Rm2w4mTWNQix0E3hV5Q0Xy+p63uwYoM9SDJw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the pastebin that
> probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its uploaded on
> my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
>
> If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it without
> problem.
>
> I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no problems
> with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
> legislation, I've always defended transparency.
>
> But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that I've been
> one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done more
> than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a working
> infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
>
> But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will always
> defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's members.
> On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George" <francisco.george at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pirates,
>>
>> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike have been
>> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his real
>> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later). Choms
>> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
>> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed in
>> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to the PPI,
>> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain false.
>>
>> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement concerning
>> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists seem
>> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is echoed
>> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying to give
>> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
>> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex affiliate
>> and his intentions towards PP-ES
>>
>>
>> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside Pirata
>> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To mention
>> only
>> some of them:
>>
>> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he launched
>> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the affiliates.
>>
>> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff without
>> giving any explanations for doing so.
>>
>> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
>> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
>>
>> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the voting
>> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting process.
>> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the voting
>> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
>> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast doubts
>> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same system
>> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
>> himself
>> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
>>
>> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the current and
>> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not prickly
>> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with the
>> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called "You
>> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and directed to
>> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less is
>> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
>>
>> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to twitter,
>> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories about
>> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
>> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
>> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
>>
>>
>> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been threatening
>> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of legal
>> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal threads was
>> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in a
>> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
>> designations
>> together is a crime, in his case.
>>
>> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
>>
>> Now, the situation is that the Comit? de Derechos y Garant?as (CdDyG, the
>> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to ask for
>> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a person
>> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned doings
>> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group), and
>> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the same
>> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board (with no
>> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General Assembly, that
>> means, by all the affiliates.
>>
>> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for theirsuspension
>> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
>> temporary
>> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure in his
>> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
>>
>> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms has
>> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the Directory
>> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
>> dismiss
>> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to send
>> a
>> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
>> themselves.
>>
>> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
>> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume this
>> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst trolls
>> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board in the
>> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
>>
>> PP-ES National Board
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120404/7cd49545/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:26:54 +0200
> From: <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> 	<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Cc: coa at pp-international.net, board at pp-international.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-ES Board statement - About Choms who
> 	insists in accusing PP-ES in the PPI list.
> Message-ID:
> 	<db14c813e6026388d469277d50cbb7b9 at localhost.piratenpartij.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Ya the old dillemma, do you want a bunch of stuffy board members who
> bother to write a long email in semi-legaleze or some guy who has far too
> much to proof to ever be an effective team player? How about you both stfu
> and settle this as gentlemen in an honest sabre duel.
>
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:19:00 +0200, Choms <choms at botmania.net> wrote:
>> Always the same lies, most of those points are rebated on the pastebin
> that
>> probably members of PPES reported to get deleted, and now its uploaded
> on
>> my own server at botmania.net/rs.txt so I won't rebate them again.
>>
>> If any particular member has any particular question I'll answer it
> without
>> problem.
>>
>> I have proofs of absolutely all statements I say, and I have no problems
>> with sharing it deleting all personal data susceptible of spanish
>> legislation, I've always defended transparency.
>>
>> But the only point I'm not going to allow is the one who say that I've
> been
>> one year "fucking up" the party, because in the last year I've done more
>> than the most of PPES members, the fact is actually PPES have a working
>> infrastructure because I configured the servers and services.
>>
>> But well, what can I expect from the PPES board? obviously they will
> always
>> defend their territory even if it imply lying or deleting party's
> members.
>> On Apr 4, 2012 6:57 PM, "Francisco George" <francisco.george at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Pirates,
>>>
>>> During the last weeks the mails lists of Pirata ES and PPI alike have
>>> been
>>> receiving a series of emails from ex Pirate -ES affiliate Choms (his
> real
>>> name is concealed at his request for reasons we'll explain later).
> Choms
>>> has been accusing Pirata.ES of several charges we'll don't bother to
>>> discuss in detail in the lists of PPI since they have been discussed in
>>> close detail in the lists of Spain Pirata, they are irrelevant to the
>>> PPI,
>>> and for the most part they are insubstantial, misguiding or plain
> false.
>>>
>>> The Board of Spain Pirat would like to make a short statement
> concerning
>>> the case with this affiliate, since the moderators of the PPI lists
> seem
>>> unwilling to take any action against his trolling, and since he is
> echoed
>>> by a specific member of another Spanish Pirate Party who is trying to
>>> give
>>> credibility to any accusation made against PP-ES. We hope that this
>>> statement is enough to set the facts straight concerning this ex
>>> affiliate
>>> and his intentions towards PP-ES
>>>
>>>
>>> Ex-Pirata affiliate Choms has been involved in most troubles inside
>>> Pirata
>>> for at least one year now, most of the times as instigator. To mention
>>> only
>>> some of them:
>>>
>>> - In his capacity as administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he
> launched
>>> an unauthorised "official" voting to just one part of the affiliates.
>>>
>>> - In the same capacity, he dismissed several members of his staff
> without
>>> giving any explanations for doing so.
>>>
>>> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he failed miserably to
>>> fulfill any role during several weeks before.
>>>
>>> - As administrator of the servers of PIRATA, he discredited the voting
>>> system used for a specific question, in the middle of the voting
> process.
>>> Note that we not only encourage affiliates to report bugs in the voting
>>> systems, but are constantly improving the systems we have. We do not
>>> consider acceptable that the administrator of the servers cast doubts
>>> against the legitimacy of a on-progress vote that is using a same
> system
>>> that's been used again and again (in fact, it is the same system he
>>> himself
>>> used in his unauthorised votation, this time without objections)
>>>
>>> - He has insulted publicly and in private most members of the current
> and
>>> the previous Board of Pirate. Please, bear in mind that we are not
>>> prickly
>>> when allowing the affiliates to express their dissatisfaction with the
>>> board. But we think that sending an email to the public lists called
> "You
>>> all are sons of bitches" in capitals, as the thread title, and directed
>>> to
>>> all the members of the board is not acceptable language (even less is
>>> acceptable behaviour to keep on the same thread for a full day.
>>>
>>> - He has been sending letters to the lists of PPI (and now to twitter,
>>> etc) full with the grossest mistakes and contrary-to-fact stories about
>>> Spain's Pirate and his own role in the affairs. You can read all his
>>> tweets, giving his side of the stoty in twitter:
>>> https://twitter.com/#!/Choms
>>>
>>>
>>> - Probably worst of all, for more than nine months he has been
>>> threatening
>>> several members of the current and former Board with all kind of legal
>>> suits, without giving plausible explanations. One of the legal threads
>>> was
>>> related with the use of his real name together with his nickname in a
>>> document of the party. Apparently he considers that using both
>>> designations
>>> together is a crime, in his case.
>>>
>>> This is just a part of the claims the party have against Choms.
>>>
>>> Now, the situation is that the Comit? de Derechos y Garant?as (CdDyG,
>>> the
>>> party equivalent to the Court of Arbitration) voted by majority to ask
>>> for
>>> the suspension of militancy of Choms and MissAllSunday (this is a
> person
>>> who actively stands by the side with Choms in some the mentioned doings
>>> (those not connected with his role as coordinator of the IT group), and
>>> some more of her own, and who is referred to by her nickname for the
> same
>>> reasons stated before). This decision was supported by the board (with
> no
>>> vote to the contrary) and is currently voted by the General Assembly,
>>> that
>>> means, by all the affiliates.
>>>
>>> Shortly after hearing the decision of the CdDyG to ask for
>>> theirsuspension
>>> of militancy, Choms tried to avoid the Assembly vote by asking to
>>> temporary
>>> sign off from the party (again, you can read about Choms departure in
> his
>>> tweets). The party has decided to carry on with the votation.
>>>
>>> Upon the CdDyG vote to suspend Choms and Diana of militancy, Choms has
>>> presented at least two legal complaints against members of the
> Directory
>>> board. The case is so weak and fanciful that we hope the court will
>>> dismiss
>>> them as soon as its considers is legal validity. We will be happy to
>>> send a
>>> copy of the denounce to the members of the PPI Board, to judge by
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>> Now, anybody might ask us why why on Earth did the party never take
>>> official action against this persons before. We are ready to assume
> this
>>> charge, since our very inability to firmly act against the worst trolls
>>> inside the party are certainly a sign of a dysfunction of the Board in
>>> the
>>> past, but finally we are ready to correct this now.
>>>
>>> PP-ES National Board
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pp.international.general mailing list
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14
> ********************************************************
>

-- 
European correspondent,
Pakistan Daily Times

(0044) 7738 713 984
alan.wykes at googlemail.com