[pp.int.general] "interesting" Spiegel piece this week
pirat at lennstar.de
Sun Apr 22 22:02:54 CEST 2012
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I have not really read all of your text nd not the Spiegel one.
I just wanted to say that there is a media (+other partys) shitstorm
since the last sucessful election (and before the next 2 elections
Or to put it differently: We are now officially in phase III.
I: First they ignore
II: Then they lough
III: Then they fight against you
iV: Then you win
Am 22.04.2012 21:32, schrieb Andrew Norton:
> I had my attention drawn to this piece in Spiegel Online on Friday,
> and it's raised some questions, and discussion points.
> Like many, i listened to the talk given last week at the conference
> by Fabio Reinhardt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LoJa7cu-I) and
> I did notice some differences between Spiegel and that talk.
> From what I remember (and it was cold, and I'd been sitting
> outside trying to participate for 7 hours - since 3am - at that
> point, so if I missed it, I'm sorry) there was no mention of what
> is perhaps the most troubling aspects of that piece; pirates afraid
> to speak. Lots of positives, but no negatives, or mentions of
> problems at all really.
> *CLARIFICATION* What I'm saying now is based mainly on the
> article, whose accuracy I'm uncertain of, so what I'm saying is
> based on that, and is open for discussion if the article is in
> error. I'm also on holiday (my first in 15 years) so I'm out of
> contact with people to verify, and am writing this from a Florida
> In the sections titled 'Internal Wrangling' and 'Harsh Tone' a
> picture is painted of what is essentially mob rule, and of a party
> where it's a constant scramble to stay ahead of the mob, and not
> incur it's disfavour.
> Perhaps most disappointing, is the report in there that Julia
> Schramm had to make a choice between publicly advocating the party,
> or running for an officer position in it. Worryingly, she
> apparently kept quiet to improve her chances. But when (or if, I
> don't know the dynamics) she wins, will she be able to speak then,
> or will she still have to be quiet to secure the re-election? In
> many ways, the article makes out that the position is more
> important than the message - a traditional political position,
> where the aim is about getting power.
> When we're afraid to discuss, to even have the conversation, is
> that a good thing, or a very very BAD thing. I'm sure many know my
> opinion already - I'll have the conversation and damn the personal
> consequences (even if it means I come bottom of elections, as I did
> last week, and I believe Boris has a similar position) - but we
> don't really have the option to try and keep our head down and hope
> things through. Are we so afraid of our positions, that we can't
> back them up under any threat of personal loss, or is it a case of
> trying to be the ultimate politician, and trying to appeal to
> pretty much everyone while trying to avoid opposing anyone?
> Again, I don't know. Things have been rather quiet coming out of
> Germany on these topics. When I was making the digital editions of
> No Safe Harbor (reminder, we're looking for pieces for No Safe
> Harbor 2! details to come soon) one of the most involved pieces was
> one about Liquid Democracy. With the knowledge I'd gained from 15
> years in politics, what it said wasn't quite gelling with what I'd
> experienced. A piece in Spiegel 7 weeks ago
> did clear up some of my unanswered questions, and this piece has
> answered some more. It highlighted the instability and volatility
> issues I thought it should have, but which I'd not heard about.
> As an amusing side-note, I have a near-permanent IRC presence. Over
> the last 2-3 years, we've had an occasional trickle of Germans into
> the US party channel, telling us how great everything is, and that
> we should do things the same way. Yet, they've never mentioned any
> of this stuff, or anything much beyond 'yeah, it's great, and works
> well'. I've always been skeptical, and this article gives a reason
> for that (of course, the other reason is that Germany is COMPLETELY
> different from the US, and needs a completely different approach).
> Anyway, I've rattled on long again (now you know why my video was
> 8 minutes, actually cut down from over an hour of material). If
> there are issues or corrections to be made, again, I welcome them.
> And if you're German, and afraid to speak out, but still want to
> contribute, I can understand that, just mail me direct at
> ktetch at ktetch.co.uk and I'll repost your comments, anonymously (on
> that you have my word)
> So, in the words of Spiegel ("The politics of Shitstorms",
> let the shitstorm begin
> Andrew Getting sunburnt on a beach Gulf coast of Florida
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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