[pp.int.general] "interesting" Spiegel piece this week

Sun Apr 22 22:21:09 CEST 2012

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On 4/22/2012 4:02 PM, Pirat at LennStar.de wrote:
> I have not really read all of your text nd not the Spiegel one. I
> just wanted to say that there is a media (+other partys) shitstorm 
> since the last sucessful election (and before the next 2 elections 
> next month).
> 
> Or to put it differently: We are now officially in phase III.

- From the text in the articles, it's more that there's fighting with
themselves. I am not sure though, thus my email.

> 
> I: First they ignore II: Then they lough III: Then they fight
> against you iV: Then you win
> 
> LennStar
> 
> Am 22.04.2012 21:32, schrieb Andrew Norton:
>> I had my attention drawn to this piece in Spiegel Online on
>> Friday, and it's raised some questions, and discussion points.
> 
>> Like many, i listened to the talk given last week at the
>> conference by Fabio Reinhardt
>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LoJa7cu-I) and I did notice
>> some differences between Spiegel and that talk.
> 
>> From what I remember (and it was cold, and I'd been sitting 
>> outside trying to participate for 7 hours - since 3am - at that 
>> point, so if I missed it, I'm sorry) there was no mention of
>> what is perhaps the most troubling aspects of that piece; pirates
>> afraid to speak. Lots of positives, but no negatives, or mentions
>> of problems at all really.
> 
>> *CLARIFICATION* What I'm saying now is based mainly on the 
>> article, whose accuracy I'm uncertain of, so what I'm saying is 
>> based on that, and is open for discussion if the article is in 
>> error. I'm also on holiday (my first in 15 years) so I'm out of 
>> contact with people to verify, and am writing this from a
>> Florida beach.
> 
>> In the sections titled 'Internal Wrangling' and 'Harsh Tone' a 
>> picture is painted of what is essentially mob rule, and of a
>> party where it's a constant scramble to stay ahead of the mob,
>> and not incur it's disfavour.
> 
>> Perhaps most disappointing, is the report in there that Julia 
>> Schramm had to make a choice between publicly advocating the
>> party, or running for an officer position in it. Worryingly, she 
>> apparently kept quiet to improve her chances. But when (or if, I 
>> don't know the dynamics) she wins, will she be able to speak
>> then, or will she still have to be quiet to secure the
>> re-election? In many ways, the article makes out that the
>> position is more important than the message - a traditional
>> political position, where the aim is about getting power.
> 
>> When we're afraid to discuss, to even have the conversation, is 
>> that a good thing, or a very very BAD thing. I'm sure many know
>> my opinion already - I'll have the conversation and damn the
>> personal consequences (even if it means I come bottom of
>> elections, as I did last week, and I believe Boris has a similar
>> position) - but we don't really have the option to try and keep
>> our head down and hope things through. Are we so afraid of our
>> positions, that we can't back them up under any threat of
>> personal loss, or is it a case of trying to be the ultimate
>> politician, and trying to appeal to pretty much everyone while
>> trying to avoid opposing anyone?
> 
>> Again, I don't know. Things have been rather quiet coming out of 
>> Germany on these topics. When I was making the digital editions
>> of No Safe Harbor (reminder, we're looking for pieces for No
>> Safe Harbor 2! details to come soon) one of the most involved
>> pieces was one about Liquid Democracy. With the knowledge I'd
>> gained from 15 years in politics, what it said wasn't quite
>> gelling with what I'd experienced. A piece in Spiegel 7 weeks ago
>>  
>> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,818683,00.html)
>>
>> 
did clear up some of my unanswered questions, and this piece has
>> answered some more. It highlighted the instability and
>> volatility issues I thought it should have, but which I'd not
>> heard about.
> 
>> As an amusing side-note, I have a near-permanent IRC presence.
>> Over the last 2-3 years, we've had an occasional trickle of
>> Germans into the US party channel, telling us how great
>> everything is, and that we should do things the same way. Yet,
>> they've never mentioned any of this stuff, or anything much
>> beyond 'yeah, it's great, and works well'. I've always been
>> skeptical, and this article gives a reason for that (of course,
>> the other reason is that Germany is COMPLETELY different from the
>> US, and needs a completely different approach).
> 
>> Anyway, I've rattled on long again (now you know why my video
>> was 8 minutes, actually cut down from over an hour of material).
>> If there are issues or corrections to be made, again, I welcome
>> them. And if you're German, and afraid to speak out, but still
>> want to contribute, I can understand that, just mail me direct
>> at ktetch at ktetch.co.uk and I'll repost your comments, anonymously
>> (on that you have my word)
> 
>> So, in the words of Spiegel ("The politics of Shitstorms", 
>> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,823993,00.html),
>>
>> 
let the shitstorm begin
> 
>> Andrew Getting sunburnt on a beach Gulf coast of Florida
> 
>> ____________________________________________________ Pirate
>> Parties International - General Talk 
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net 
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>> 
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net 
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

- --
> 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.co.uk
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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