[pp.int.general] "interesting" Spiegel piece this week

Sun Apr 22 22:42:02 CEST 2012

Yeah it is not as bad as in the Spiegel piece.

I'll get Julia in here to comment on this herself. But I think it does not
have to do so much with representing opinions (Even though nobody really
wants to discuss them with us, ie Lennstar is right, it is 'just' the media
(and a few authors and author clubs like Gema and a few (not all)
politicians of other parties) shitstorming on us. Julia is not afraid of
putting her opinion out, she does that all the time, not really caring
whether the rest of the pirates agree with her or not. She is afraid of
going to TV shows because some pirates think that this puts too much of a
face on things and therefore puts personal proliferation over the contents
the party stands for. This is not that big of a deal, but hurts your
chances of getting elected for internal positions.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Pirat at LennStar.de <pirat at lennstar.de>wrote:

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> I have not really read all of your text nd not the Spiegel one.
> I just wanted to say that there is a media (+other partys) shitstorm
> since the last sucessful election (and before the next 2 elections
> next month).
>
> Or to put it differently: We are now officially in phase III.
>
> I: First they ignore
> II: Then they lough
> III: Then they fight against you
> iV: Then you win
>
> LennStar
>
> Am 22.04.2012 21:32, schrieb Andrew Norton:
> > I had my attention drawn to this piece in Spiegel Online on Friday,
> > and it's raised some questions, and discussion points.
> >
> > Like many, i listened to the talk given last week at the conference
> > by Fabio Reinhardt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LoJa7cu-I) and
> > I did notice some differences between Spiegel and that talk.
> >
> > From what I remember (and it was cold, and I'd been sitting
> > outside trying to participate for 7 hours - since 3am - at that
> > point, so if I missed it, I'm sorry) there was no mention of what
> > is perhaps the most troubling aspects of that piece; pirates afraid
> > to speak. Lots of positives, but no negatives, or mentions of
> > problems at all really.
> >
> > *CLARIFICATION* What I'm saying now is based mainly on the
> > article, whose accuracy I'm uncertain of, so what I'm saying is
> > based on that, and is open for discussion if the article is in
> > error. I'm also on holiday (my first in 15 years) so I'm out of
> > contact with people to verify, and am writing this from a Florida
> > beach.
> >
> > In the sections titled 'Internal Wrangling' and 'Harsh Tone' a
> > picture is painted of what is essentially mob rule, and of a party
> > where it's a constant scramble to stay ahead of the mob, and not
> > incur it's disfavour.
> >
> > Perhaps most disappointing, is the report in there that Julia
> > Schramm had to make a choice between publicly advocating the party,
> > or running for an officer position in it. Worryingly, she
> > apparently kept quiet to improve her chances. But when (or if, I
> > don't know the dynamics) she wins, will she be able to speak then,
> > or will she still have to be quiet to secure the re-election? In
> > many ways, the article makes out that the position is more
> > important than the message - a traditional political position,
> > where the aim is about getting power.
> >
> > When we're afraid to discuss, to even have the conversation, is
> > that a good thing, or a very very BAD thing. I'm sure many know my
> > opinion already - I'll have the conversation and damn the personal
> > consequences (even if it means I come bottom of elections, as I did
> > last week, and I believe Boris has a similar position) - but we
> > don't really have the option to try and keep our head down and hope
> > things through. Are we so afraid of our positions, that we can't
> > back them up under any threat of personal loss, or is it a case of
> > trying to be the ultimate politician, and trying to appeal to
> > pretty much everyone while trying to avoid opposing anyone?
> >
> > Again, I don't know. Things have been rather quiet coming out of
> > Germany on these topics. When I was making the digital editions of
> > No Safe Harbor (reminder, we're looking for pieces for No Safe
> > Harbor 2! details to come soon) one of the most involved pieces was
> > one about Liquid Democracy. With the knowledge I'd gained from 15
> > years in politics, what it said wasn't quite gelling with what I'd
> > experienced. A piece in Spiegel 7 weeks ago
> > http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,818683,00.html)
> > did clear up some of my unanswered questions, and this piece has
> > answered some more. It highlighted the instability and volatility
> > issues I thought it should have, but which I'd not heard about.
> >
> > As an amusing side-note, I have a near-permanent IRC presence. Over
> > the last 2-3 years, we've had an occasional trickle of Germans into
> > the US party channel, telling us how great everything is, and that
> > we should do things the same way. Yet, they've never mentioned any
> > of this stuff, or anything much beyond 'yeah, it's great, and works
> > well'. I've always been skeptical, and this article gives a reason
> > for that (of course, the other reason is that Germany is COMPLETELY
> > different from the US, and needs a completely different approach).
> >
> > Anyway, I've rattled on long again (now you know why my video was
> > 8 minutes, actually cut down from over an hour of material). If
> > there are issues or corrections to be made, again, I welcome them.
> > And if you're German, and afraid to speak out, but still want to
> > contribute, I can understand that, just mail me direct at
> > ktetch at ktetch.co.uk and I'll repost your comments, anonymously (on
> > that you have my word)
> >
> > So, in the words of Spiegel ("The politics of Shitstorms",
> > http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,823993,00.html),
> > let the shitstorm begin
> >
> > Andrew Getting sunburnt on a beach Gulf coast of Florida
> >
> > ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> > International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
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