[pp.int.general] Online voting versus online discussion

[Antonio Garcia]

There is only one way to handle the complexity of on-line many to many communication... increased self-policing of triviality through AWARENESS.

If nobody refrains voluntarily from posting trivial matter... everything gets flooded by trivial matter, and nobody can afford the time to track the few serious threads embedded in the shitloads.

This is something affecting massively attended real life gatherings too... to much lack of organisation and structure (providing the premises is not enough) leads to improvisation and waste of time on trivial matters, with available time running out before serious stuff can be tabled.

This also matters for the many blogs and other on-line venues where pirate content is made available...

... if you have no selection criteria and can not afford to discriminate triviality... you get flooded. And because you know you will be... you do not organise anything.


As long as the majority is not aware, and no efficiency rules can be applied... all effort is moot.


Antonio
PP-ES

________________________________
> From: mariemini at gmail.com 
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 14:33:38 +0100 
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net 
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Online voting versus online discussion 
>  
> Hello! 
> This is my first post in the PPI ML and my english isn't famous. But I  
> the issue seems very important to me. 
>  
> I think that Zbigniew Lukasiak is absolutely right and that the  
> international discussion should be enriched and diversified with many  
> blogs and ML. 
> But how to manage the complexity? How could the communication stMaybe  
> could the Opensource world be helpful and give us some models? 
> In my own country, France, we haven't got yet a satisfactory solution.  
> We are trying to improve our internal communication. But in my opinion  
> it remains relatively poor and too often dedicated to internal  
> problems. 
> And GA shouldn't be the place to discuss complex issues. 
>  
> So what can to do to get more creative? 
>  
>  
> 2012/12/9 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com<mailto:zzbbyy at gmail.com>> 
> Short version: 
>  
> online voting - no 
> (http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2012/10/155536-internet-voting-in-the-us/fulltext) 
>  
> online discussion - yes 
>  
> Longer version: 
>  
> Comming from the Open Source world I am surprised by the scarcity of 
> international disscussion in the Pirate Movement.  This list and the 
> PirateTimes are perhaps the only places where the international pirate 
> topics are discussed.  This is not enough - if that was an Open Source 
> project you'd have many individual blogs and many more mailing lists 
> where people would discuss stuff from many angles and also in more 
> personal less formal ways. 
>  
> I have the feeling that all that discussion that does not happen 
> online is then crammed into the General Assemblies.  In my opinion GAs 
> should be just a matter of recording the consensus on matters that 
> would be exhaustingly discussed online.  That is not to say that 
> discussion would be forbidden - only that we should try to avoid it. 
>  
> Online voting is a can of worms - it can probably work well for 
> non-secret voting - but to get it right is much more difficult than it 
> seems.  Especially in the context of international negotiations we 
> cannot put so much faith in the  administators of the system.  And 
> please read the paper linked above. 
> Of course discussion systems are subject of similar concerns - but it 
> does not need to be so centralized - and beside that it would be 
> subject to the supervision of the safe, in person, GA. 
>  
>  
> -- 
> Zbigniew Lukasiak 
> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/ 
> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/ 
> ____________________________________________________ 
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net<mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net> 
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general 
>  
>  
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties  
> International - General Talk  
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net  
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general