[pp.int.general] R: PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization

[carlo von lynX]

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 10:47:14PM +0100, Gregory Engels wrote:
> > here our specification, regularly voted in LQFB:
> > 
> > Yes: 38 (79%) · Abstention: 16 · No: 10 (21%) · Approved
> 
> Lilo, 
> 
> this is interesting. Can you please break down this numbers to include delegation?
> i.e. how many Persons have actually participated in the voting process?

Looks like lilo got tired of this thread, so I'll answer   ;)

18 participants, thus 46 delegations.

Without delegations the result would be:

    Yes: 9 - Abstention: 4 - No: 5 - Approved anyway.

Considering that this was a 24h "board" decision vote, 18
physical participants voting is a certainly higher turnout
than a typical board voting which would in most political
parties ranges from 1-9 members, right? Considering that
this is exactly the kind of situation where liquid democracy
is intentional to avoid the dominance of the activerts, so
it's good there is a decent number of delegations, although
it should rather be well in the hundreds.

Also I'd like to point out that out of the 11 people that
voted with delegation, 8 where not a party member last
February, so Carlito's theory that it's always the same old
farts running the show is utterly false.

I can't help coming to the conclusion that our democracy
is as healthy as can be and that our problems in using
LQFB as our permanent assembly are of completely different
kind.. difficulty in maintaining good behaviour.. difficulty
to implement strategy.. difficulty to take conseguences when
people have failed us.. difficulty to enforce anything..
but that's very much related to Italian way of being nice
and forever patient. We just need to get to the point that
it hurts hard enough to pass some harsher regulations and
then we will sail smoother.

We really have a long story to tell after one year of experience
running a political party under the rule of a liquid permanent
assembly, I wished we had the time. I know Germany needs some
of this reaaaally soon to get out of the crisis.