[pp.int.general] CONSENSUS

[Antonio Garcia]

Phew!

If the debate is democracy vs consensus... some few have no idea about what democracy is.

And if it takes not one vote against for something to be consensual... well, consensus is not unanimity.

Democracy is absolutely not the 50,01% doing what it wants, with the 49,99% trying to avoid it or planning to reverse everything as soon as lady fortune smiles their way.


The problem lies within the level of education, knowledge and wisdom of the participants, specially those called to be part of the majority.

Try to play a football match with nobody in both teams knowing the rules of the game, and at times in which of the teams he is playing ;( .


The rules don´t help but to fool oneself, if the spirit and the intent aren´t present.


Antonio.
PP-ES


Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:06:01 +0200
From: jakobsheep at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] CONSENSUS

This brings up what is a hot issue here in in France as well. We debate now about the democracy versus consensus.

On one side the democracy can become a dictatorship of the majority. As on the other side consensus is incredibly slow because nothing moves until there is not even one vote against the proposal.
I'm for concensus because this is the ONLY way to guaranty protection from the abuse of a majority against a minority or even a single person.
On Jul 13, 2012 12:48 p.m., "Andy Halsall" <a.halsall at pirateparty.org.uk> wrote:

On Friday 13 July 2012 01:19:45 Richard Stallman wrote:

>     There is nothing "100% secure-proofed" in a world where we can't even

>     decide if we're living in the matrix.

>

> The question is not whether it is "100% secure-proofed".

> The question is whether it is grossly rotten or not.

>

> For traditional voting systems, we have some idea of how

> vulnerable they are -- from simple experience.  For new proposed

> computerized systems, we don't have experience to go by.

> They are surely less than 100% reliable, but are they

> less than 10% reliable?  We don't know, and actually using

> them gives us little information, since we cannot check

> the official results they give.



For me it has always been a question as to the benefits of computerised voting.



What problems are we trying to solve? Participation? Speed of getting a result?

>

> --

> Dr Richard Stallman

> President, Free Software Foundation

> 51 Franklin St

> Boston MA 02110

> USA

> www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org

> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.

>   Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

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>



--

Andy Halsall

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Pirate Party UK

+44 (0) 7505111705



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