[pp.int.general] Global heating: 2 degrees of heating is 16 years away

Mon Jul 23 19:33:50 CEST 2012

- He said that mitigation was "expensively futile without the consent of the Third World's fast-growing nations". -

That is from his Wikipedia page, whose lecture I would recommend.

Now, my question... Do you wish a scientific rebuttal, or a political argumentation about the "expensively futile" that can get us deep into the whereabouts of protestant political and economic thinking?

But then, I might think that, just to convince you, ... the effort needed might not be worth it. It might be easier to route around you... and convince the rest.

Antonio.

Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:02:39 +0200
From: govervliet at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Global heating: 2 degrees of heating is 16	years away

At the end of the day, the climate debate will force me, as a citizen, to change my life. Before I accept that, I should be convinced that whatever measures are taken are the best for me personally. And yes, in that respect I am a selfish bastard.

When the pirates address this issue, I as a pirate will be required to defend that issue. Which, at present, I can not.

The best way to convince me is to debate Christopher Monckton and win (or have the scientists debate him). And don't start with "Christopher Monckton is just...", because that is character assassination, which is a logical fallacy and therefore an invalid argument. Besides, if he is a nutcase, the debate should be won quite easily. Also, the before mentioned "99% of the scientists agree" is an appeal to authority, which is also a logical fallacy and therefore invalid. "Let's not fiddle...", the debate will probably require a few weeks to set up, from the skeptics side, so no harm there. And it will give some nice talking points, which could be used to form the official Pirate viewpoint.

When Christopher Monckton has been defeated in debate (and I don't care who defeats him, just as long as the topic is climate change), I will believe the climate change story again. But until then, I think the "fossil fuel burning -> CO2 -> climate change -> end of the world" story should be avoided.

Gijs

2012/7/23 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>

I've got a one size-fits-all general theory (this is one single world, one entity, after all, there must be an all-encompassing explanation) that thus far has performed remarcably well at interpreting the most diferentiated facts.

But, of course, I'm not a majority, and its necessary complexity inhibits convincing a majority the easy way...

The "one very knowledgeable guy" scenario does not seem to be very viable... considering the actual evolution of most pirate musings everywhere, and 15M-DRY-Indignado-Occupy thought processes.

Antonio García
PP-ES

Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:29:02 +0300
From: teirdes at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net

Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Global heating: 2 degrees of heating is 16	years away

    i don't understand why instead we would
      not enter the raw materials issue. it is directly connected with
      information policy and has huge environmental impact in europe and
      abroad. the greens are in it from a different perspective, which
      is saving the trees, where our perspective would be making a
      sustainable information technology innovation, production and
      maintenance.

      rare earth elements, cupper, other types of raw materials
      extraction. these are really big issues for the european union and
      most of the member states. they also have a big impact on which
      innovation patterns we exhibit. it entails the careful balancing
      of corporate interests with respect to that of small and
      medium-sized enterprises as well as towards citizens, NGOs and the
      environment. someone could become very knowledgeable on this topic
      on behalf of the pirates, rather than us chasing around after an
      issue which is anyway the politically most chased at this time.

      best regards,

      a

      Pe 23.07.2012 16:11, Kenneth Peiruza a scris:

      The greens ran over our core issues, the only thing we have and
      they miss is 'direct/liquid democracy'.

      However, most pirate parties defend human rights as well. If
        you can't live in your country because to global warming or
        severe enviromental issues, IMO, that must be a topic of the
        pirate parties in every affected country.

        Salut! 

      Dario <i at dario.im> escribió:

      2012/7/23 Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>

          -1

            Global warming is a fact, Spanish desertified/arid
              zones have doubled, from 25 to 50% in 20 years, and if you
              get UN to agree with greenpeace in anything, that is
              because there is already too much evidence.

            Skeptics about man-driven global warming exist in
              internet forums and mailing lists. Scientists agree in a
              99%. There's more believers in creationism.

          Agreed. Next question: what we can do from a pirate POV
          without being a Green spin-off?

      PS: Richard, I have pending to write about Wombat Voting System.
      Sorry for the delay!

      -- 

      Dario Castañé
      http://www.dario.im | http://twitter.com/im_dario

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