[pp.int.general] PPI board meeting minutes and some updates about the conference

Fri Mar 2 16:19:38 CET 2012

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> wrote:

> The direct vote of people doesn't means that someone is a ppi member, but
> member of a pirate party.
>

Which makes it even more difficult to organize, even with eDemocracy ;)

Regards,

Jerry

>
> it's only a way to democratize it a little bit :)
>
>
>
> Salut!
>
> Jerry Weyer <weyerjerry at gmail.com> escribió:
> Hello,
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>wrote:
>
>>  Hi Jerry,
>>
>> IMO, the way to balance countries with many parties, big countries with a
>> lot of members and only one party and countries with few members and 1
>> party would be a rule of double majority, kind of senate + congress:
>>
>> - Congress: every pirate has 1 vote, it might approve everything by
>> (i.e.) 2/3 of votes.
>> - Senate: 1 party, 1 vote, might approve everything by 2/3 or 3/4 of
>> votes. Where no member shares territory with another pirate party.
>>
>
> Interesting idea - however PPI only accepts Parties, not individuals as
> members. Also it would be very hard to organize conferences with individual
> members of all Pirate Parties ;)
>
>
>>
>> If most pirate parties and most pirates want something, probably they're
>> right.
>>
>> If suddenly a country presented 20 regional parties that could
>> significantly affect the senate's vote, or we don't see any real activity
>> over there, we can just decline the admission as full members and leave
>> them as observers until they do something real (a campaign, running for
>> elections, & so on).
>>
>
> That might just be the reasonable thing to do in short term: make the
> statute amendment you proposed and hope the GA is reasonable in accepting
> new members.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
>>
>>
>> I must leave right now, if do you want to open a pad, I'll be glad to
>> participate.
>>
>> Regards!
>>
>> Kenneth
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/03/12 14:40, Jerry Weyer wrote:
>>
>> Hello Kenneth,
>>
>>  I would support such a modification. The idea behind the 1 country 1
>> member rule was to avoid having 2 competing PPs from one country as a
>> member. I think this is now less of a problem than the one you described!
>> Spain is not the only country where it is a problem, look at the US where
>> we have more than one regional Pirate Party which should also be able to
>> join as ordinary member.
>>
>>  The only risk I see with that modification is that you might have
>> multiple voting members from one country. Imagine every regional and local
>> Pirate Party in Germany joining as ordinary member with full voting rights.
>> Do you have any proposal on how to avoid that?
>>
>>  If you propose an amendment make sure to do it before the deadline ;)
>> If you have a Pad where you prepare it let me know, I'd like to have a look
>> :)
>>
>>  Kind regards,
>>
>>  Jerry
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi Justus,
>>>
>>> Yes, Galicia can't get ordinary membership with current statutes,
>>> however, the situation in Spain is quite different of that in Germany. It's
>>> closer to the one in Italy with PP-IT and PP-SudTirol.
>>>
>>> At least 7 Spanish regions have a mother tongue different than Spanish
>>> and represent a 40% of the Spanish population. That doesn't happens in
>>> Germany.
>>>
>>> We have 3 regions with a significative % of voters not feeling Spaniards
>>> (or not so much) in Spain: Catalonia
>>> , Vasque Country and Galicia. In a minor %, you have Asturias, Navarra,
>>> Valencia and Balearic Islands, then you have the rest of 17 autonomous
>>> regions.
>>>
>>> In Catalonia and Vasque country, over 55% of people votes always for
>>> non-spanish parties, sometimes up to 65%.
>>>
>>> The Spanish commies (IU, Izquierda Unida) fixed this by creating a
>>> confederation: One party in Catalonia and it's brother outside it (ICV +
>>> IU) and this is the model we're pushing forward in PP-CAT. Most Spaniard
>>> commies vote happily to ICV in Catalonia, whilst most Catalan commies vote
>>> ICV as well. Years ago, it was all IU. After organizing like IU+ICV,
>>> commies increased a 50% its voters in Catalonia.
>>>
>>> That is our idea: work together in International and state-wide issues,
>>> and organize independently on each region whenever possible (general
>>> elections are done region by regions in Spain, as in many countries).
>>>
>>> Samir (and I can't tell if Marcel as well) pointed out that we should
>>> sort-out this situation in Spain. He proposed PP-ES to loose its full
>>> membership status and urged PP-ES + CAT ( and now + GAL as well ) to create
>>> an umbrella organization which would be the full-member of PPI.
>>>
>>> That would make sense, as PP-CAT is 3.5 times bigger than PP-ES, it's a
>>> bit weird that they have full-membership status whilst we simply can't.
>>>
>>> There's a Spanish pirate for every 225000 Spaniards whilst there's a
>>> Catalan pirate for every 9966 Catalans... Moreover, we have the only 2
>>> pirate representatives of Spain. On the last Spanish general election
>>> (November 2011), over 90% of the Pirate votes were for PP-CAT...
>>>
>>> PP-ES has had several internal issues in the last years... It looked
>>> like its new bureau was fixing it, but suddenly it fucked up and got frozen
>>> again... Sadly, PP-ES hasn't taken profit of its potentiality since 2006.
>>>
>>> That's the key reason why new regional pirate parties arise in Spain.
>>> Most of us aren't secessionists (PP-CAT has a % of secessionists similar to
>>> that in Catalan society), we just try to make our job in the most efficient
>>> possible way. Expect others to be created as well over the next years if
>>> PP-ES donesn't fixes it's statute and internal democracy issues (working on
>>> it since 2009...).
>>>
>>> Forget about PP-CAT integrating into PP-ES, there's no way. Even if
>>> PP-ES fixed its statutes and internal democracy issues, at least 50% of
>>> PP-CAT members wouldn't be part of a Spanish party, and thinking in
>>> election results, a huge % of we would decline the offering. So, we need
>>> another way.
>>>
>>> PP-CAT and PP-GAL are pushing for a Pirate Confederation in Spain, to
>>> define basic rules for common candidatures (like EU parliament's one),
>>> where PP-ES can have federated regional parties like Madrid, Andalucia or
>>> whoever wants, whilst others can choose to become members of the
>>> confederation, being PP-ES itself one of the confederation members.
>>>
>>> However, internal work in PP-ES is terribly slow, thus, if we can't
>>> agree something before PPI's GA, we will probably propose an statute
>>> modification, changing "country" for "territory", so, PP-CAT and PP-GAL
>>> would be able to achieve full membership status.
>>>
>>> This modification would ease the integration of parties PP-CAT and
>>> PP-GAL into PPI, by PP-ES confirming that it's not going to present
>>> candidatures/lead activity in these territories, and easing the admission
>>> of new PPI members in places like Palestine, Turkish-Kurdistan, Irak's
>>> Kurdistan and so on, which lack a state but have completely independent
>>> politics of Israel, Turkey or Irak.
>>>
>>> Would you like/support such a statute modification?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Kenneth Peiruza
>>> Pirates de Catalunya
>>> http://pirata.cat
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/03/12 02:49, Justus Römeth wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you for posting Lola! And thank you Pat, Lola and Thomas for doing
>>> a job 6 people were elected with 3 people!
>>>
>>>  One question: How could Galicia get ordinary membership, though?
>>>
>>> And another would/could/should be: Is observer membership by the German
>>> state parties something PPI welcomes, or do you merely accept it (as there
>>> is a paralell with the situation in Spain)? How about local chapters
>>> (Pirate party of Hanover, pirate party of Frankfurt, ...)? Maybe this point
>>> merits discussion during the GA (in the unlikely event we run out of
>>> topics).
>>>
>>>  -J
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Lola Voronina <
>>> lola.voronina at pp-international.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fellow Pirates,
>>>>
>>>>  Enclosed is a link to the minutes of the last PPI board meeting:
>>>>  http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-02-28
>>>>
>>>>  We also updated the conference page:
>>>> http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012. The next PPI
>>>> conference will take place in Prague on 14-15 of April. We are currently
>>>> working on a program (here is a draft:
>>>> https://ppi.piratenpad.de/ppi-conference-agenda) and invitations.
>>>> If you want to submit any statute amendment or other proposal add it to
>>>> the proposal page:
>>>> http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_Conference_2012/Proposals or write to *
>>>> board at pp-international.net*.
>>>>
>>>>  Best regards,
>>>> Lola Voronina,
>>>> Chief Administrative Officer, Pirate Parties International
>>>>  International Coordinator, Pirate Party of Russia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talkpp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.nethttp://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> Jerry Weyer
>>
>>  http://jay.lu/
>> @jerryweyer <https://twitter.com/#%21/jerryweyer>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talkpp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.nethttp://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jerry Weyer
>
> http://jay.lu/
> @jerryweyer <https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer>
>
>

-- 

Jerry Weyer

http://jay.lu/
@jerryweyer <https://twitter.com/#!/jerryweyer>
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