[pp.int.general] PPI board meeting minutes and some updates about the conference.

Sun Mar 4 17:16:43 CET 2012

I think that if there is a Pirate Party in a country, it should vote.

Of course, I said a country, not a part of it.

2012/3/4 Choms <choms at botmania.net>

> imho, neither of all spanish territory pirate parties should have vote,
> even less after this deplorable spectacle where they all should be ashamed.
>
>
> 2012/3/4 Mozart <mozart.palmer at pirateparty.org.au>
>
>>   I like this suggestion:
>>
>> "I think one vote per country has worked quite well for PPI. In order to
>> accomodate the situation in Spain I would suggest someone whom it is
>> important to drafts an amendment of the PPI statutes that allows regional
>> parties in exceptional circumstances to become ordinary members (maybe with
>> only half a vote?) after the GA votes in favor of admitting that party as
>> an ordinary member."
>>
>> But would say they should be given full vote when admitted. The situation
>> in Spain does not seem to be working out at the moment, so a Pirate
>> Confederation there is unlikely. They just don't seem to agree. And for
>> now, PPES holds the Spanish vote I believe, even though PPCAT is a
>> reportedly much larger party.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mozart.
>>
>> On 05/03/2012, at 12:19 AM, Justus Römeth wrote:
>>
>> Hola Isabela, hola rest of Galician parties
>>
>> While I understand the Galician/Catalonian position on this, and that
>> circumventing the 1 voter per country makes totally sense for you, it just
>> does not make sense from a German point of view:
>> - Some local parties in Germany have more members than many national
>> parties in other countries, going by member count alone is not a good
>> starting point.
>> - It is unlikely to happen in the near future, but if there is a rift
>> within PPDE towards our position to PPI regional parties could start to ask
>> for votes, too. Unless the other parties grow exceptionally by then this
>> would 'allow' PPDE to 'swamp' PPI with regional/local parties if we
>> institutionalize what you propose, bringing the rift within PPDE to PPI.
>> - Even more problematic, an institutionalization of allowing regional
>> parties into PPI could allow PPDE to effectively take over PPI if it would
>> wish so. Not something I particularly would like to happen.
>>
>> So where does that leave us? The PPI rule of one country/one vote is
>> obviously flawed when it comes to entities where it is unclear whether they
>> are countries in our sense or not (Kosovo, Northern Cyprus, Flanders,
>> Wallonia, and also Scotland are obvious examples). If you say that
>> Catalonia and Galicia should get their own vote in PPI, why should Bavaria
>> or Frisia not get one? But if they get one, why shouldn't Northern Frisia,
>> the Sorbs, or Amsterdam (all entities that see themselves as somewhat
>> different than the rest of their country), or Limburg and Lower Saxony (who
>> see themselves as deserving the same rights as Bavaria and Friesland, since
>> they are on the same political level within their country)?
>>
>> I personally am not a big fan of the organization of politics with the
>> concept of nations (I am a German, but I don't quite understand why I
>> should feel closer to someone in Munich compared to someone in Vienna,
>> Berne, Luxembourg, Eupen, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague or Wroclaw). But I
>> accept that this ambiguous concept is accepted by the vast majority of
>> other people, that today's politics deal with this concept, that it is
>> important to a lot of people, and that I won't be able to fundamentally
>> change it.
>>
>> I think one vote per country has worked quite well for PPI. In order to
>> accomodate the situation in Spain I would suggest someone whom it is
>> important to drafts an amendment of the PPI statutes that allows regional
>> parties in exceptional circumstances to become ordinary members (maybe with
>> only half a vote?) after the GA votes in favor of admitting that party as
>> an ordinary member.  (Maybe you could include non-opposition by the
>> 'affected' national party, too). There is no guarantee that such an
>> amendment would pass, however. This would then allow the members of PPI to
>> decide on a possible Kosovarian PP when there is one, and not force them to
>> make such a decision now.
>>
>> The more fundamental question is obviously whether there is a lot of use
>> in having this discussion at all. Is an ordinary membership in PPI that
>> important to PP-CAT and PP-GAL, keeping PPI's tasks and limitations in
>> mind? Do PP-CAT and PP-GAL really disagree with PPES so much as far as PPI
>> is concerned? Shouldn't this discussion instead focus on how we set up PPEU
>> concerning national minorities (or at all), or how PPES could be reformed
>> that it is not seen as such a big problem for the members of PP-CAT and
>> PP-GAL?
>>
>> -J
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi Isabel,
>>>
>>> It would be great to see some Galician Pirates in the forthcoming GA.
>>> Please think about it! There's going to be 6 PP-ES delegates and 4 PP-CAT
>>> delegates there, so, we can have a nice time with a lot of Pilsen beer :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/03/12 10:59, Isabel Fernández wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Justus,
>>>
>>> We don't think PPI's job regulate between pirates parties either. That's
>>> why we said we'll declare nothing of the sort.
>>>
>>> Our suggestion was based on the premise 'one legal territorial pirate
>>> party - one vote' that we think it's a more fair than the actual
>>> situation. We think PPI could give it some thought to this issue.
>>>
>>> We'd love to send a delegate to the GA, but rumours are saing that we'll
>>> face elections next autumn at Galician Parlament and still there's a lot
>>> work to do... we're not sure we can attend to Prague. Generally rumours
>>> on this subject turn out to be true at the end. Maybe next time we are
>>> able to send Galician Delegation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Isabel Fernandez.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/03/12 10:51, Justus Römeth wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thank you Isabel (and the rest of PP-GAL),
>>>
>>> I don't think PPI's job is to regulate between individual pirate parties,
>>> but rather to keep the movement growing, by providing infrastructure and a
>>> place to meet for pirates who's country does not have a PP, and by helping
>>> them through the early stages of forming a party. Therefore I don't think a
>>> model that would give PPDE ~20 times as much voting power as the next
>>> biggest party (PPSE is still not a member) would be appropriate.
>>>
>>> That is not to say that the current model of PPI concerning the situation
>>> in Spain is optimal. It is not. I think your proposed solution would make
>>> sense for something like PPEU, or a PPI with a much broadened scope (as
>>> well as institutions like the EP, but that is a different matter). As of
>>> yet I don't see the latter happening, however.
>>>
>>> Are you (PP-GAL) planning to send a delegate to the General assembly in
>>> Prague?
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Justus
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:09 AM, HerNenya <isabel.fdez at mundo-r.com> <isabel.fdez at mundo-r.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  I do apologize since last message was my first mail to this list. I'm
>>> not used to deal w/ digests.
>>>
>>> I repeat the message for better reading.
>>>
>>> Best Regards to all,
>>>
>>>
>>> Isabel Fernandez.
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> This is a message made by the members of public relations team for
>>> PP-GAL. It is agreed by all the members of mentioned team and we want to
>>> send it through our link in this mailing list of PPI members so it must
>>> be understood in the name of PP-GAL party and not from the sender who
>>> forwards this message.
>>>
>>> Since there were direct references to PP-GAL in this list and the way we
>>> organize ourselves in Spain, we consider it is important to be heard in
>>> our oppinion before of the rest of pirates parties of the world.
>>>
>>> First of all, we would like to say we are 2 months old as a political
>>> party in Spain and our foundation is based on the structure of Spain as
>>> a country formed by autonomies as such established in the Spanish
>>> Constitution Act [1] in article #148 in order to organize ourselves in
>>> the Spaniard territory. Moreover we have our own idiosyncrasy as
>>> language and culture quite different from other spaniard territories.
>>> Therefore we are an approved political party by the competent Ministry
>>> with same rights and duties as PP-ES and PP-CAT.
>>>
>>> As Kenneth from PP-CAT said in other previous message, we are
>>> encouraging a confederation at country level to organize common tasks
>>> that affect us as a nation such the cases of #megacomplaint and
>>> #opColapso (fighting against Sinde-Wert law [2]) that we are supporting
>>> PP-ES, PP-CAT and PP-GAL. Last week we have created a mailing list
>>> called pirata-34 to discuss those affairs.
>>>
>>> Regarding the subject about who can vote as a country or by the amount
>>> of pirate members, we consider system of countries is not fair precisely
>>> because of proportion of the population densities and pirates members. A
>>> possible fair solution (as a suggestion) to this matter could be that
>>> depending on the number of members from each pirate party, each party
>>> will provide a proportional amount of the contingency fund of PPI, as
>>> well, each party would have the proportional weight in PPI decisions.
>>>
>>> Refering to mentions about how to organize internally the different
>>> pirate parties in Spain, we considered that this mailing list is not the
>>> appropiate place to discuss about it, so we are not going to declare
>>> anything here.
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/IDIOMAS/9/Espana/LeyFundamental/index.htm
>>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Sinde
>>>
>>>
>>> Public Relations Team of PP-GAL.http://piratasdegalicia.org/web/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Isabel Fdez
>>> GPG EA63DF8E
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talkpp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.nethttp://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>  ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talkpp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.nethttp://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talkpp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.nethttp://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>

-- 
Miguel García Lafuente - Rock Neurotiko
Vocal de la Junta Directiva Nacional del Partido Pirata.
Coordinador de Jóvenes Piratas en Madrid.

"Libertad en lugar de miedo." - "Información libre, sociedad libre."
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