[pp.int.general] Pirate Party Situation in Spain

Mon Mar 5 09:49:53 CET 2012

Daniel, he has been asked to stop numerous times, I am basically skipping
his emails now...

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Daniel <danielrr2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I feel a kind o indefension here. Kennet Peiruza goes on and on on his
> attacks against the Spanish PP in the PPI list at a pace that seems to
> prove he has got too much time on his hands, and everybody seems to find it
> OK, or at least he isn't asked to refrain to keep doing it. He can make it
> so personal as to drop my name once or twice in every other vitriolic
> email, or he can accuse the whole Spanish PP of "illegal activities" which
> is a very serious accusation. But if I answer, then both of us get angry
> words asking us to refrain to post personal messages to the list, as if it
> doesn't matter who started this row of unsupported accusations and
> defamatory spam. What am I supposed to do? Is it OK if I reply a short
> reply, or I need to consider this thread as fire aimed in just one
> direction?
>
> Daniel
>
> El 04/03/2012, a las 18:02, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> escribió:
>
> Daniel, don't make me laugh.
>
> Citing yourself 2 hours ago: "I already stop, and any effort from your
> part not to keep bringing your political party issues to this list will be
> most appreciated by all, I think.".
>
> 1st point: I NEVER insulted you, however, you insult me on every email you
> write.
>
> 2nd point, can you tell me if I'm wrong in any of these statements instead
> of insulting me?
>
> - The president you had 1'5 years ago, left the party.
> - PP-ES's drop the membership status of at least 200 members without even
> a letter, which is mandatory by Spanish law. You simply removed them from
> you database. Interestingly, most double-members of PP-ES + PP-CAT were
> drop away.
> - PP-ES's had some key members from the former board under investigation,
> until your Court of Arbitration (CdG) resigned 2 weeks ago.
> - Your CdG's (CoA) president resigned mostly because she got rid of some
> people's attitude, including yourself, Daniel Riaño.
> - Your former secretary deleted all emails from
> secretario.jdn at partidopirata.es after leaving the charge, deleting plenty
> of evidence about his behavior.
> - You have terrible issues to verify who is really a PP-ES member and who
> isn't.
> - You haven't confirmed PP-ES's PPI membership after 2 years (it was never
> a point in any of your GA's, and your statutes say it must be confirmed by
> GA)
> - You were unable to present to most elections, in fact you have only
> presented twice out of more than 12, and the last electoral law's reform
> made you unable to run even in Madrid, your stronghold.
> - At least 3 members of your former bureau have left the party in the last
> 4 weeks.
> - A member of your former bureau was kicked away from the party by
> handcrafting a resignation letter he never wrote neither signed.
> - Your former treasurer had its email spied by other bureau members. You
> were also part of that bureau.
> - Your former bureau decided to violate your statutes by presenting
> candidatures against what it says there (not everyone was a party member 3
> months before the call for election).
> - Your former bureau added new members to the bureau without any election,
> against what your statutes say, again.
> - Your current bureau hasn't called for election to refill your resigned
> court of arbitration (in less than 3 weeks), as your statutes say.
> - Some members of your former bureau threaten us by saying that you would
> run for election in Catalonia (hilarious threat, as you couldn't even run
> for election in Madrid!)
> - TOP anti-RIAA lawyer in Spain (Josep Jover) got rid of your former
> bureau.
> - Most members of PP-ES admit that your statutes are unpractical, not to
> say dumb.
> - PP-ES has been trying to modify its statutes for 2 years.
>
> On the other hand:
>
> - We decide everything in horizontal way, with e-democracy.
> - We were the ones to run for an election in Spain.
> - We have helped you in every election were PP-ES has run. Even some of
> your TV ads were ours.
> - We trained your people in Madrid in Spanish's election law to run for
> the city hall, as we already had know-how about it.
> - We shared our contents so you could re-use it in your campaigns
> - We've given you legal advice in how to modify your statutes and how to
> present a candidature.
> - We've given you contacts to save money in banner's printing
> - We've proposed you a confederation/stable bilateral agreements for up to
> 19 months.
> - We've looked for candidates (and presented a bunch of them) to help you
> run for election in Andalusia.
> - I personally gave advice to the Spanish pirates organizing elections in
> Madrid and Andalusia.
> - 90.5% of Pirate votes in Spain are votes of Pirata.cat
> - We're almost 4 times bigger than you, in a quarter of time.
>
>
> Am I wrong in any of these statements? please, don't insult me, just tell
> me in which points I'm wrong.
>
> Too many of your issues aren't just ugly things but illegal things.
>
> Man, if you want to work together, we'll be happy to do so, but please,
> don't come here telling us that PP-ES is a cool thing when I do talk
> regularly with many of your members/bureau members and we all perfectly
> know the issues you have.
>
> We want a confederation umbrella-organization, not leaded by your lack of
> internal democracy neither your dumb statutes, to hold Spain's vote in PPI.
> We've been working for it for up to 2 years. Do you want so?
>
> Fools hardly realize about who their enemies are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> On 04/03/12 17:03, Daniel Riaño wrote:
>
> Hi Justus,
>
> It is already months since the Spanish PP has being passing in silence the
> insults, personal attacks, innuendos and all kind of defamatory rhetoric we
> have been reading in the PPI lists coming from the side of one single
> member of the PP CAT. Unlike this individual, we, at the Spanish PP don't
> think the PPI lists are the right venue to present our local pleas, to wash
> our laundry, to comment about our internal issues or the personal issues
> with pirates all over Spain, even less to do it unfairly with total
> disregard for actual facts.
>
> Now, since this individual has got some predicament in the lists, mainly
> due to his obsessed insistence on pushing his agenda through this list at
> all cost (even at the cost of sidelining the real issues of the PPI at the
> forecomign General Assembly in Praha) maybe at this point some members of
> the PPI are truly interested to know what's really going on among pirates
> in Spain (and not just " what they think is being done wrongly at PPES").
> If that's the case, I think the directory board of Spain's PP (I am
> speaking for my self here) will no doubt find the time to present a fair
> account of its position (but please mind that we have our papers to finish
> and jobs to keep and things like that) and we will be ready to answer all
> pertinent questions from all you pirates.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Daniel
>
> 2012/3/4 Justus Römeth <roemeth at gmail.com>
>
>> Moin/hola/ahoi
>>
>>  Instead of bringing up this topic in a number of threads, I think it
>> should be discussed on its own. Now, please don't make any personal
>> attacks. Instead, it would be nice if Pirates from Spain that know the
>> situation would fill the rest of us in about what they think is being done
>> wrongly at PPES, how they see PP-CAT's and PP-GAL's positions towards this,
>> if they would be okay with forming an umbrella organization that represents
>> the various Spanish PPs towards PPI (and possibly PPEU) or not, and stuff
>> like that.
>>
>>  I would in particular be interested in knowing whether members of
>> PP-CAT and PP-GAL would be interested in joining PPES as well if PPES gets
>> their problems under control (as long as Catalonia and Galicia are not
>> independent, anyways).
>>
>>  -J
>>
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>>
>
>
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