[pp.int.general] Pirate Party Situation in Spain

Mon Mar 5 09:52:20 CET 2012

Ok, thanks. I'll refrain.

Daniel

El 05/03/2012, a las 09:49, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de> escribió:

> Daniel, he has been asked to stop numerous times, I am basically skipping his emails now...
> 
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Daniel <danielrr2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel a kind o indefension here. Kennet Peiruza goes on and on on his attacks against the Spanish PP in the PPI list at a pace that seems to prove he has got too much time on his hands, and everybody seems to find it OK, or at least he isn't asked to refrain to keep doing it. He can make it so personal as to drop my name once or twice in every other vitriolic email, or he can accuse the whole Spanish PP of "illegal activities" which is a very serious accusation. But if I answer, then both of us get angry words asking us to refrain to post personal messages to the list, as if it doesn't matter who started this row of unsupported accusations and defamatory spam. What am I supposed to do? Is it OK if I reply a short reply, or I need to consider this thread as fire aimed in just one direction?
> 
> Daniel
> 
> El 04/03/2012, a las 18:02, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> escribió:
> 
>> Daniel, don't make me laugh.
>> 
>> Citing yourself 2 hours ago: "I already stop, and any effort from your part not to keep bringing your political party issues to this list will be most appreciated by all, I think.".
>> 
>> 1st point: I NEVER insulted you, however, you insult me on every email you write.
>> 
>> 2nd point, can you tell me if I'm wrong in any of these statements instead of insulting me?
>> 
>> - The president you had 1'5 years ago, left the party.
>> - PP-ES's drop the membership status of at least 200 members without even a letter, which is mandatory by Spanish law. You simply removed them from you database. Interestingly, most double-members of PP-ES + PP-CAT were drop away.
>> - PP-ES's had some key members from the former board under investigation, until your Court of Arbitration (CdG) resigned 2 weeks ago.
>> - Your CdG's (CoA) president resigned mostly because she got rid of some people's attitude, including yourself, Daniel Riaño.
>> - Your former secretary deleted all emails from secretario.jdn at partidopirata.es after leaving the charge, deleting plenty of evidence about his behavior.
>> - You have terrible issues to verify who is really a PP-ES member and who isn't.
>> - You haven't confirmed PP-ES's PPI membership after 2 years (it was never a point in any of your GA's, and your statutes say it must be confirmed by GA)
>> - You were unable to present to most elections, in fact you have only presented twice out of more than 12, and the last electoral law's reform made you unable to run even in Madrid, your stronghold.
>> - At least 3 members of your former bureau have left the party in the last 4 weeks.
>> - A member of your former bureau was kicked away from the party by handcrafting a resignation letter he never wrote neither signed.
>> - Your former treasurer had its email spied by other bureau members. You were also part of that bureau.
>> - Your former bureau decided to violate your statutes by presenting candidatures against what it says there (not everyone was a party member 3 months before the call for election).
>> - Your former bureau added new members to the bureau without any election, against what your statutes say, again.
>> - Your current bureau hasn't called for election to refill your resigned court of arbitration (in less than 3 weeks), as your statutes say.
>> - Some members of your former bureau threaten us by saying that you would run for election in Catalonia (hilarious threat, as you couldn't even run for election in Madrid!)
>> - TOP anti-RIAA lawyer in Spain (Josep Jover) got rid of your former bureau.
>> - Most members of PP-ES admit that your statutes are unpractical, not to say dumb.
>> - PP-ES has been trying to modify its statutes for 2 years.
>> 
>> On the other hand:
>> 
>> - We decide everything in horizontal way, with e-democracy.
>> - We were the ones to run for an election in Spain.
>> - We have helped you in every election were PP-ES has run. Even some of your TV ads were ours.
>> - We trained your people in Madrid in Spanish's election law to run for the city hall, as we already had know-how about it.
>> - We shared our contents so you could re-use it in your campaigns
>> - We've given you legal advice in how to modify your statutes and how to present a candidature.
>> - We've given you contacts to save money in banner's printing
>> - We've proposed you a confederation/stable bilateral agreements for up to 19 months.
>> - We've looked for candidates (and presented a bunch of them) to help you run for election in Andalusia.
>> - I personally gave advice to the Spanish pirates organizing elections in Madrid and Andalusia.
>> - 90.5% of Pirate votes in Spain are votes of Pirata.cat
>> - We're almost 4 times bigger than you, in a quarter of time.
>> 
>> 
>> Am I wrong in any of these statements? please, don't insult me, just tell me in which points I'm wrong.
>> 
>> Too many of your issues aren't just ugly things but illegal things.
>> 
>> Man, if you want to work together, we'll be happy to do so, but please, don't come here telling us that PP-ES is a cool thing when I do talk regularly with many of your members/bureau members and we all perfectly know the issues you have.
>> 
>> We want a confederation umbrella-organization, not leaded by your lack of internal democracy neither your dumb statutes, to hold Spain's vote in PPI. We've been working for it for up to 2 years. Do you want so?
>> 
>> Fools hardly realize about who their enemies are.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Kenneth
>> 
>> 
>> On 04/03/12 17:03, Daniel Riaño wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Justus,
>>> 
>>> It is already months since the Spanish PP has being passing in silence the insults, personal attacks, innuendos and all kind of defamatory rhetoric we have been reading in the PPI lists coming from the side of one single member of the PP CAT. Unlike this individual, we, at the Spanish PP don't think the PPI lists are the right venue to present our local pleas, to wash our laundry, to comment about our internal issues or the personal issues with pirates all over Spain, even less to do it unfairly with total disregard for actual facts. 
>>> 
>>> Now, since this individual has got some predicament in the lists, mainly due to his obsessed insistence on pushing his agenda through this list at all cost (even at the cost of sidelining the real issues of the PPI at the forecomign General Assembly in Praha) maybe at this point some members of the PPI are truly interested to know what's really going on among pirates in Spain (and not just " what they think is being done wrongly at PPES"). If that's the case, I think the directory board of Spain's PP (I am speaking for my self here) will no doubt find the time to present a fair account of its position (but please mind that we have our papers to finish and jobs to keep and things like that) and we will be ready to answer all pertinent questions from all you pirates.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Daniel
>>> 
>>> 2012/3/4 Justus Römeth <roemeth at gmail.com>
>>> Moin/hola/ahoi
>>> 
>>> Instead of bringing up this topic in a number of threads, I think it should be discussed on its own. Now, please don't make any personal attacks. Instead, it would be nice if Pirates from Spain that know the situation would fill the rest of us in about what they think is being done wrongly at PPES, how they see PP-CAT's and PP-GAL's positions towards this, if they would be okay with forming an umbrella organization that represents the various Spanish PPs towards PPI (and possibly PPEU) or not, and stuff like that.
>>> 
>>> I would in particular be interested in knowing whether members of PP-CAT and PP-GAL would be interested in joining PPES as well if PPES gets their problems under control (as             long as Catalonia and Galicia are not independent, anyways).
>>> 
>>> -J
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20120305/9fb663ac/attachment-0001.html>