[pp.int.general] Companies that trap and sue P2P users in Germany
betielix at gmail.com
Wed Mar 21 13:41:08 CET 2012
so.. they are asking simple poeple with poor tech knowledge to do what big
enterprises with lot of expert fail every day to do. That is, to have a
proper defence against hackers, virus, etc... That doesn´t sound good at
2012/3/19 Jonas Pöhler <j.poehler at piratenpartei-nrw.de>
> Yes in Germany there is a law called "Störerhaftung". The owner of the
> line must take security measures to ensure nobody can do something without
> him knowing.
> Am 10.03.2012 01:50, schrieb Maxime Rouquet:
> On 03/09/2012 10:49 PM, Markus Drenger wrote:
>>> in a court case those companies problably win, by providing "evidence"
>>> recorded by their secret p2p-observer software.
>> With IP address and time, one may identify the owner of an Internet
>> access, but this does not constitute an evidence. Apart from "false
>> positive" problems, you have absolutely no certainty whether the user of
>> the line at that time was the owner... or somebody else.
>> In France, courts reject claims about copyright infringement with no
>> other pieces of evidence (like confessions, police investigation, etc.)
>> HADOPI law was a consequence of that : first they tried to get rid of
>> the judges by giving to the HADOPI the power to disconnect citizens
>> without a fair trial. When the Constitutional Council censored this
>> first version, they focused on a "failure to secure" infringement.
>> Funny point is that detecting an IP address is no evidence that the
>> owner of the related Internet access did not secure his connection.
>> Presumption of innocence asking for the complainant to bring such
>> evidence, HADOPI is in the same dead end than the previous laws.
>> Has a German court ever ruled a case based on such recordings ?
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general@**lists.pirateweb.net<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general@**lists.pirateweb.net<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
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