[pp.int.general] Don't roast our planet
HerNenya
isabel.fdez at mundo-r.com
Fri May 18 12:16:18 CEST 2012
I suggest to change the direction of this thread since it is not the
point of this subject to discuss if it's true the global heating it's a
fact or not, but whether we are going to do something about enviromental
issues (setting this issue as one of our priorities for example) as
political movement.
I do believe there is a global heating created or aggravated by humans.
And as someone said before, it results that fighting against global
heating reducing CO2 emissions, not only helps to this fight but helps
to live in a healthier enviroment to any criature.
If there is someone who doesn't believe in global heating, well,
reducing poisonous gasesthat everyone is breathing still it's a nice
thing to work on. Isn't it?
There are lots of renewable resources that are not exploted at their
full potencial since it's not good for huge corporations, there are
patents of 'green' engines that won't see the light again because of
economic interests, and so on. The list is endless. We are a radical
option of change, aren't we? Someone said to create a task force about
this or that was in the other thread about economics? Either way I think
that's a good option.
Best Regards,
Isabel Fernandez
On 18/05/12 11:30, Charly Pache wrote:
> Man made global warming is an hypothesis as well, even the IPCC report
> says it, that there is no final proof, no 100% certainty but just that
> it is very likely the reason. I already posted all the links and
> information that cast doubts about this man made global warming
> hypothesis and I just tell that we should not stop researching the
> other possible causes, like sun fluctuation, and we have to be open
> minded towards these other scientists and researchers, who often have
> more to loose as to win in not accepting the main stream vision of
> global warming.
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de
> <mailto:squig at dfpx.de>> wrote:
>
> I do not need to do anything, I just do not see you engaging in
> this conversation with anything but hypthetical talking points.
>
> Yes, IF we find out that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming
> (or we cannot stop it anyways), IF global warming is more of a
> concern than running out of fossil fuels and the growing ozone
> layer and IF our resources regarding those issues are severly
> limited we are betting on the wrong horse trying to reduce CO2
> emission. Those are three pretty big IFs, I don't think arguing
> with these hypotheses as the main starting point makes a lot of
> sense, and frankly I do not understand why you think it does,
> other for the sake of arguing and going against the majority, or
> for not having to change a convenient lifestyle.
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Charly Pache
> <charly.pache at gmail.com <mailto:charly.pache at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Why do you need to tell i'm childish and that my argument are
> weird? Be factual, don't make any subjective statement please.
>
> As for the resources, there are not so many brains really
> working on these issues worldwide on an everyday basis (450
> lead authors and ~800 contributing authors worked on the last
> IPCC report).
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de
> <mailto:squig at dfpx.de>> wrote:
>
> Now you just sound childish while making up hypothetical
> scenarios that suit your weird arguments, tbh. If our
> resources were that strained we'd be f'cked either way.
> This is not a Roland Emmerich movie!
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Charly Pache
> <charly.pache at gmail.com <mailto:charly.pache at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> The argument is that human kind has a limited amount
> of energy, resource and time and it's better to put
> focus on the most efficient ways of reaching our goal.
> In a limited world, we have to prioritize and yes,
> these two things could be mutually exclusive if we
> realize we have to put all your resources in one
> solution or the other. So my argument is an argument,
> definitely.
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Justus Römeth
> <squig at dfpx.de <mailto:squig at dfpx.de>> wrote:
>
> As others have stated, reducing CO2 emissions is a
> worthy goal even if they are not responsible for
> global warming. At the same time we have to plan
> for the scenario that we will not be able to stop
> global warming whatever we do, and act
> accordingly. Those two things are not mutually
> exclusive, so your argument is not really an
> argument at all.
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Charly Pache
> <charly.pache at gmail.com
> <mailto:charly.pache at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> No, it was just insinuating that i'm ignorant
> that i didn't like, and transforming my words
> to let think i said something i never said.
>
> One last thought about this topic.
>
> Imagine one day, in let say 20 years, we
> realize the main cause of the global warming
> was not C02, but sun fluctuation.
>
> And that we suddenly realize that during the
> last 20 years we took measures to cut-off C02
> emissions and that these heavy measures didn't
> stop global warming at all cos in fact, we
> didn't analyse toroughouly the topic at the
> beginning and we blindly accepted for granted
> the C02 theory, even if we didn't have all the
> necessary data.
>
> That's dangerous. Because then will realize we
> lost 20 years into looking for other
> solutions, like this one [1] or these ones
> [2][3], in the case the sun would be the cause.
>
> Take care, warm thoughts ;) Charly
>
> [1] Obama climate adviser open to
> geo-engineering to tackle global warming:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/08/geo-engineering-john-holdren
> [2] Geoengineering experiment cancelled amid
> patent row (15th May 2012!, please note that
> climate engineering is not yet allowed under
> international law):
> http://www.nature.com/news/geoengineering-experiment-cancelled-amid-patent-row-1.10645
> [3] A (not so up-to-date) list of
> geoengineering patents filed by many private
> corporations (and i didn't say it's bad, if
> situation on Earth will be unbearable, we will
> have to raise the issue):
> http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Richard
> Stallman <rms at gnu.org <mailto:rms at gnu.org>> wrote:
>
> Re-read my messages please, I never
> said there is no global warming going
> on, on the contrary, we argued here on
> whether it was really man made or
> natural, like it could be assumed as
> the other planets in our solar system
> get warmer as well. And I never said
> 4°C in Switzerland is the proof that
> there is no global warming
>
> By mentioning it in this discussion, you
> presented it as relevant to
> the issue. If you misspoke, you can say
> so and people will disregard
> that apparent meaning. But don't
> criticize people for responding for
> what you appear to say.
>
> --
> Dr Richard Stallman
> President, Free Software Foundation
> 51 Franklin St
> Boston MA 02110
> USA
> www.fsf.org <http://www.fsf.org>
> www.gnu.org <http://www.gnu.org>
> Skype: No way! That's nonfree
> (freedom-denying) software.
> Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call
>
>
>
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--
Isabel Fernandez
PGP EA63DF8E
www.piratasdegalicia.org
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