[pp.int.general] what are the minimum true core Pirates principles? -Attempt to get a workable consensus-

[Antonio Garcia]

There is above all a problem because "public wisdom" tends to be not so wise at all in many fields, but the biggest problem about it is... go argue ;) .

Mattias has already said that "Direct Democracy" is not a priority, nor even desirable, for all Pirate Parties. The problem is... go argue ;) .

I would say that transparent government and transparent public organisations, while I can see why they would be attractive for many, even a majority, are not what is possible in this actual world of ours.

Go ask the USA why it does the many things it does, and to be transparent about it.

The bid for transparency is like asking everybody not to count to more than 30 because you never managed to go beyond. The world should be simple to understand because you can not cope with the complex matters of life. Well, go figure, nobody will do you that favour. The only solution is to learn to count further anyway, or learn to trust someone who can.

Trust, there is where everything evolves around.

First, trust in yourself, in your views and your capabilities. Above all your capabilities to understand things and situations. If you do not trust yourself to be capable of finding out when someone tries to fool you... then you have no margin at all to be able to trust anybody.

It does not help at all to ask for everyone and everything to be to such an extent transparent... that understanding is not even necessary, as there is suposedly no way for something to be used in an abusive way.

Some should decidedly reread Machiavelli, and revisit Goebbels.

Things happen, life is complex, and you have to learn to get along with it. Nobody ever gave up anything just because somebody asked.


As far as I see It, the Pirate Party is about HACKING actual reality any way it can get away with to improve this world we live in and this society we form on it ALL TOGETHER.

Somehow, the traditional political parties have failed in doing so, and we have to sidetrack them to take over, all the time trying to be wiser and not to fuck up ourselves.

This, analysing what went wrong in the past and trying to remedy it, and trying not to accumulate much more errors in the present and future.


Antonio.
PP-ES

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:35:19 +0200
From: jakobsheep at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: [pp.int.general] what are the minimum true core Pirates principles? -Attempt to get a workable consensus-

Introduction, I am helping the pirate party Netherlands, Belgium and France with International coordination.
At this moment these PP are growing so quick from a small (a few dozen pirates) number to a big (1000 and more) number that there are obvious organisational problems.

My point is that I can not get rid of the impression that the chaos is basicly around the fear of loosing the true Pirate principles/values due this change. So what are the true pirate values clearly defined?
In my search I come to http://int.piratenpartei.de/Uppsala_Declaration#Uppsala_Declaration the Uppsala declaration. Here I find the pirate values being described but not defined. So I give it a try to get a synthesis.



So if I am not mistaking the PP objectives are:

1- Transparent governing and all public organisations have to become transparent as well.

2- Direct democracy and participation of all citizens.

3- A complete review of the copyrights and patenting system.

4- Protection and guarantee of privacy and safety.
5- In consideration with point 4 the freedom on information, education and knowledge.



These need surely additional wording but firstly do they need more core points ?-Anouk-

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