[pp.int.general] Some clarification on PPAU and PP-CAT.

Wed Sep 26 11:58:20 CEST 2012

Or the illusion of professionalism went out of the window. It is also
called reality check. It is about the balance between ideology and
pragmatism. Call it growing pains of the organisation and they
are essential and necessary (once you understand the (psycho)dynamics).
pirate greetings,
Anouk  (we will get there eventually)

On 26 September 2012 11:40, Mozart Palmer <
mozart.palmer at pp-international.net> wrote:

> I believe any semblance of professionalism went out the window in April.
> But okay.
> On Sep 26, 2012 7:33 PM, "Anouk Neeteson" <jakobsheep at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mozart, excuse me for jumping in, I read clearly that Antonio mentions
>> that the PPI (and all PP's in fact) HAS to respect its own rulings. As far
>> as I am informed is Antonio right in his action (prove me otherwise).
>> And the solution is basicly,1- obey these rulings. 2- our organisation
>> has to professionalise (confirmed by most starting PP's, read about their
>> current organisational problems) and 3- grow up and get a grip on one's own
>> ego (see the immature remarks like, go visit a psychiatrist!)
>> I personally think that these comment on specific persons about personnel
>> differences should be discussed in private accordingly. As Johan karlsson
>> mentioned in his last mail [Please read this message as if your list
>> subscription depended on it]
>> Nothing personnel, just feedback.
>> Anouk
>>
>>
>> On 26 September 2012 07:49, Mozart Olbrycht-Palmer <
>> mozart.palmer at pp-international.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You presume far too much.
>>>
>>> It was not presented by PPAU at all. Pirate Party Australia requested
>>> that the idea be heard again, as we couldn't understand what was being
>>> proposed. The poor quality of the remote delegate system meant that this
>>> was interpreted as us asking for a vote on it, and by the time it was over,
>>> both myself and the other delegate participating were so frustrated that we
>>> vowed never to attend another PPI conference.
>>>
>>> I met the Catalonian Pirate here twice. He never once mentioned wanting
>>> to become part of PPI, and I believe he returned to Spain before the PPI
>>> conference.
>>>
>>> The motion was not Australian – it was effectively European because the
>>> conference was so poorly run that our request to hear the proposal again
>>> was ignored and taken to a vote.
>>>
>>> You still have not said how you would improve anything. I'm yet to see
>>> any positive contribution.
>>>
>>> On 26/09/2012, at 2:03 AM, Antonio Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>  Dear Mozart,
>>>
>>> In fact, you have not heard me say that much at all, unless I was forced
>>> to by circumstances. I am not the frantically improvising kind of guy,
>>> moving by trial and error.
>>>
>>> As a bonus, nobody would have reasons to remember me attending the PPI
>>> GA of 2012 in Prague either, if not for the famous photo Slim Amamou of the
>>> Tunisian Pirate Party kindly tweeted around. Something that can not be said
>>> of some other without suffering voluntary amnesia. I was immensely
>>> disappointed with almost everything that happened there, and many things
>>> that had no occasion to be tabled because of the way things went. But I
>>> kept my temper.
>>>
>>> I made a very significant personal financial sacrifice to be able to
>>> attend, and I feel utterly betrayed in my expectations.
>>>
>>> As for having problems with you, no, not personally though.
>>>
>>> But I remember that the motion that was instrumentalized to force an
>>> illegal vote on whether the Catalan Pirate Party should be full member of
>>> the PPI was presented remotely by the Australian Pirate Party. Maybe under
>>> the influence of one Catalan Pirate actually living there.
>>>
>>> Also, if I remember well, the Court of Arbitration verdict was signed
>>> only by 4 judges.
>>>
>>> 1) Arturo Martinez, being member of the Spanish Pirate Party, did the
>>> naively honest thing and abstained.
>>> 2) Maxime Rouquet wrote a dissenting opinion so one can intelligently
>>> infer he voted against.
>>> 3) You, despite being part to the issue because the motion was
>>> australian, were not naive and voted in favour.
>>> 4) The fourth member, the Italian Ciurcina and only real lawyer on the
>>> CoA, objectively inexplicably, but populistically underswtandable, voted in
>>> favour.
>>>
>>> So, you see,... if one of two conditions, Arturo being less honest, or
>>> you being a bit more honest, had been met...
>>>
>>> ... the result would have been different.
>>>
>>> This, notwithstanding the fact that it is void anyway because of the
>>> infringement of the Statutes in the first place, and the illegal and unduly
>>> twisting of an article of the Statutes by the CoA to be able to close the
>>> chain of argumentations leading to the sentence served.
>>>
>>> As you see, I have an awful lot to criticise, with standing arguments in
>>> my hands. But I choose to do it the civilized way... and I am keeping
>>> myself extremely calm considering how things are being treated.
>>>
>>> Others can't cope with reason and urge my removal from these lists in
>>> very unpirately ways ;) .
>>>
>>>
>>> As for solutions, you'd be surprised to hear what kind of problems I
>>> routinely consider and what solutions I have for them.
>>>
>>> They might get our German brethren about 30% of the vote in the next
>>> elections in Lower Saxony, paving the way for similar results in the
>>> Federal Elections less than a year later, not to speak about what might
>>> come our way in the European Elections again less than a year later.
>>>
>>> So, you may consider what I might be thinking now of all this childish
>>> behaviour going on in PPI, PPEU, and several Pirate Parties, including, do
>>> not be surprised, the Spanish Pirate Party.
>>>
>>> I see nobody I can trust with the kind of kung-fu I hold in my hands. I
>>> had to choose not to help our Dutch brethren, nor our Belgian ones. Maybe
>>> not even our German.
>>>
>>> I've got to wait until I see some more trustworthy rational behaviour in
>>> the Pirate Parties.
>>>
>>>
>>> Solutions, I have. But is the actual fuzzy and superficial, populistic
>>> dynamics of being Pirates able to put them to good use?
>>>
>>>
>>> I have to doubt it, much to my disappointment.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pirates should be... intelligent.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for giving me the right occasion to table all this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Antonio.
>>> PP-ES
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: mozart.palmer at pp-international.net
>>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:52:36 +1000
>>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal
>>>
>>> Antonio…an honest question here.
>>>
>>> Over the past year or so since I've been on this list, and for the three
>>> or four months I was on the Court of Arbitration, I have not actually heard
>>> you say much that is positive.
>>>
>>> In fact, you seem very quick to criticise and very slow to offer any
>>> solutions.
>>>
>>> I appreciate that you have problems with me, and the rest of the
>>> current/previous CoA, but they seem more about causing trouble than
>>> anything else. You seem intent on removing the Catalonian Pirates, and I am
>>> not sure what this obsession is about. Surely Pirates should be inclusive,
>>> not discriminatory.
>>>
>>> So, Antonio, what are your solutions for fixing the state of the
>>> movement?
>>> ____________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
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>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________
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