[pp.int.general] Some clarification on PPAU and PP-CAT.

[Mozart Palmer]

I believe any semblance of professionalism went out the window in April.
But okay.
On Sep 26, 2012 7:33 PM, "Anouk Neeteson" <jakobsheep at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Mozart, excuse me for jumping in, I read clearly that Antonio mentions
> that the PPI (and all PP's in fact) HAS to respect its own rulings. As far
> as I am informed is Antonio right in his action (prove me otherwise).
> And the solution is basicly,1- obey these rulings. 2- our organisation has
> to professionalise (confirmed by most starting PP's, read about their
> current organisational problems) and 3- grow up and get a grip on one's own
> ego (see the immature remarks like, go visit a psychiatrist!)
> I personally think that these comment on specific persons about personnel
> differences should be discussed in private accordingly. As Johan karlsson
> mentioned in his last mail [Please read this message as if your list
> subscription depended on it]
> Nothing personnel, just feedback.
> Anouk
>
>
> On 26 September 2012 07:49, Mozart Olbrycht-Palmer <
> mozart.palmer at pp-international.net> wrote:
>
>> You presume far too much.
>>
>> It was not presented by PPAU at all. Pirate Party Australia requested
>> that the idea be heard again, as we couldn't understand what was being
>> proposed. The poor quality of the remote delegate system meant that this
>> was interpreted as us asking for a vote on it, and by the time it was over,
>> both myself and the other delegate participating were so frustrated that we
>> vowed never to attend another PPI conference.
>>
>> I met the Catalonian Pirate here twice. He never once mentioned wanting
>> to become part of PPI, and I believe he returned to Spain before the PPI
>> conference.
>>
>> The motion was not Australian – it was effectively European because the
>> conference was so poorly run that our request to hear the proposal again
>> was ignored and taken to a vote.
>>
>> You still have not said how you would improve anything. I'm yet to see
>> any positive contribution.
>>
>> On 26/09/2012, at 2:03 AM, Antonio Garcia wrote:
>>
>>  Dear Mozart,
>>
>> In fact, you have not heard me say that much at all, unless I was forced
>> to by circumstances. I am not the frantically improvising kind of guy,
>> moving by trial and error.
>>
>> As a bonus, nobody would have reasons to remember me attending the PPI GA
>> of 2012 in Prague either, if not for the famous photo Slim Amamou of the
>> Tunisian Pirate Party kindly tweeted around. Something that can not be said
>> of some other without suffering voluntary amnesia. I was immensely
>> disappointed with almost everything that happened there, and many things
>> that had no occasion to be tabled because of the way things went. But I
>> kept my temper.
>>
>> I made a very significant personal financial sacrifice to be able to
>> attend, and I feel utterly betrayed in my expectations.
>>
>> As for having problems with you, no, not personally though.
>>
>> But I remember that the motion that was instrumentalized to force an
>> illegal vote on whether the Catalan Pirate Party should be full member of
>> the PPI was presented remotely by the Australian Pirate Party. Maybe under
>> the influence of one Catalan Pirate actually living there.
>>
>> Also, if I remember well, the Court of Arbitration verdict was signed
>> only by 4 judges.
>>
>> 1) Arturo Martinez, being member of the Spanish Pirate Party, did the
>> naively honest thing and abstained.
>> 2) Maxime Rouquet wrote a dissenting opinion so one can intelligently
>> infer he voted against.
>> 3) You, despite being part to the issue because the motion was
>> australian, were not naive and voted in favour.
>> 4) The fourth member, the Italian Ciurcina and only real lawyer on the
>> CoA, objectively inexplicably, but populistically underswtandable, voted in
>> favour.
>>
>> So, you see,... if one of two conditions, Arturo being less honest, or
>> you being a bit more honest, had been met...
>>
>> ... the result would have been different.
>>
>> This, notwithstanding the fact that it is void anyway because of the
>> infringement of the Statutes in the first place, and the illegal and unduly
>> twisting of an article of the Statutes by the CoA to be able to close the
>> chain of argumentations leading to the sentence served.
>>
>> As you see, I have an awful lot to criticise, with standing arguments in
>> my hands. But I choose to do it the civilized way... and I am keeping
>> myself extremely calm considering how things are being treated.
>>
>> Others can't cope with reason and urge my removal from these lists in
>> very unpirately ways ;) .
>>
>>
>> As for solutions, you'd be surprised to hear what kind of problems I
>> routinely consider and what solutions I have for them.
>>
>> They might get our German brethren about 30% of the vote in the next
>> elections in Lower Saxony, paving the way for similar results in the
>> Federal Elections less than a year later, not to speak about what might
>> come our way in the European Elections again less than a year later.
>>
>> So, you may consider what I might be thinking now of all this childish
>> behaviour going on in PPI, PPEU, and several Pirate Parties, including, do
>> not be surprised, the Spanish Pirate Party.
>>
>> I see nobody I can trust with the kind of kung-fu I hold in my hands. I
>> had to choose not to help our Dutch brethren, nor our Belgian ones. Maybe
>> not even our German.
>>
>> I've got to wait until I see some more trustworthy rational behaviour in
>> the Pirate Parties.
>>
>>
>> Solutions, I have. But is the actual fuzzy and superficial, populistic
>> dynamics of being Pirates able to put them to good use?
>>
>>
>> I have to doubt it, much to my disappointment.
>>
>>
>> Pirates should be... intelligent.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for giving me the right occasion to table all this.
>>
>>
>> Antonio.
>> PP-ES
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: mozart.palmer at pp-international.net
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:52:36 +1000
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal
>>
>> Antonio…an honest question here.
>>
>> Over the past year or so since I've been on this list, and for the three
>> or four months I was on the Court of Arbitration, I have not actually heard
>> you say much that is positive.
>>
>> In fact, you seem very quick to criticise and very slow to offer any
>> solutions.
>>
>> I appreciate that you have problems with me, and the rest of the
>> current/previous CoA, but they seem more about causing trouble than
>> anything else. You seem intent on removing the Catalonian Pirates, and I am
>> not sure what this obsession is about. Surely Pirates should be inclusive,
>> not discriminatory.
>>
>> So, Antonio, what are your solutions for fixing the state of the movement?
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>
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