[pp.int.general] Some clarification on PPAU and PP-CAT.

[Anouk Neeteson]

Hi Mozart, excuse me for jumping in, I read clearly that Antonio mentions
that the PPI (and all PP's in fact) HAS to respect its own rulings. As far
as I am informed is Antonio right in his action (prove me otherwise).
And the solution is basicly,1- obey these rulings. 2- our organisation has
to professionalise (confirmed by most starting PP's, read about their
current organisational problems) and 3- grow up and get a grip on one's own
ego (see the immature remarks like, go visit a psychiatrist!)
I personally think that these comment on specific persons about personnel
differences should be discussed in private accordingly. As Johan karlsson
mentioned in his last mail [Please read this message as if your list
subscription depended on it]
Nothing personnel, just feedback.
Anouk


On 26 September 2012 07:49, Mozart Olbrycht-Palmer <
mozart.palmer at pp-international.net> wrote:

> You presume far too much.
>
> It was not presented by PPAU at all. Pirate Party Australia requested that
> the idea be heard again, as we couldn't understand what was being proposed.
> The poor quality of the remote delegate system meant that this was
> interpreted as us asking for a vote on it, and by the time it was over,
> both myself and the other delegate participating were so frustrated that we
> vowed never to attend another PPI conference.
>
> I met the Catalonian Pirate here twice. He never once mentioned wanting to
> become part of PPI, and I believe he returned to Spain before the PPI
> conference.
>
> The motion was not Australian – it was effectively European because the
> conference was so poorly run that our request to hear the proposal again
> was ignored and taken to a vote.
>
> You still have not said how you would improve anything. I'm yet to see any
> positive contribution.
>
> On 26/09/2012, at 2:03 AM, Antonio Garcia wrote:
>
> Dear Mozart,
>
> In fact, you have not heard me say that much at all, unless I was forced
> to by circumstances. I am not the frantically improvising kind of guy,
> moving by trial and error.
>
> As a bonus, nobody would have reasons to remember me attending the PPI GA
> of 2012 in Prague either, if not for the famous photo Slim Amamou of the
> Tunisian Pirate Party kindly tweeted around. Something that can not be said
> of some other without suffering voluntary amnesia. I was immensely
> disappointed with almost everything that happened there, and many things
> that had no occasion to be tabled because of the way things went. But I
> kept my temper.
>
> I made a very significant personal financial sacrifice to be able to
> attend, and I feel utterly betrayed in my expectations.
>
> As for having problems with you, no, not personally though.
>
> But I remember that the motion that was instrumentalized to force an
> illegal vote on whether the Catalan Pirate Party should be full member of
> the PPI was presented remotely by the Australian Pirate Party. Maybe under
> the influence of one Catalan Pirate actually living there.
>
> Also, if I remember well, the Court of Arbitration verdict was signed only
> by 4 judges.
>
> 1) Arturo Martinez, being member of the Spanish Pirate Party, did the
> naively honest thing and abstained.
> 2) Maxime Rouquet wrote a dissenting opinion so one can intelligently
> infer he voted against.
> 3) You, despite being part to the issue because the motion was australian,
> were not naive and voted in favour.
> 4) The fourth member, the Italian Ciurcina and only real lawyer on the
> CoA, objectively inexplicably, but populistically underswtandable, voted in
> favour.
>
> So, you see,... if one of two conditions, Arturo being less honest, or you
> being a bit more honest, had been met...
>
> ... the result would have been different.
>
> This, notwithstanding the fact that it is void anyway because of the
> infringement of the Statutes in the first place, and the illegal and unduly
> twisting of an article of the Statutes by the CoA to be able to close the
> chain of argumentations leading to the sentence served.
>
> As you see, I have an awful lot to criticise, with standing arguments in
> my hands. But I choose to do it the civilized way... and I am keeping
> myself extremely calm considering how things are being treated.
>
> Others can't cope with reason and urge my removal from these lists in very
> unpirately ways ;) .
>
>
> As for solutions, you'd be surprised to hear what kind of problems I
> routinely consider and what solutions I have for them.
>
> They might get our German brethren about 30% of the vote in the next
> elections in Lower Saxony, paving the way for similar results in the
> Federal Elections less than a year later, not to speak about what might
> come our way in the European Elections again less than a year later.
>
> So, you may consider what I might be thinking now of all this childish
> behaviour going on in PPI, PPEU, and several Pirate Parties, including, do
> not be surprised, the Spanish Pirate Party.
>
> I see nobody I can trust with the kind of kung-fu I hold in my hands. I
> had to choose not to help our Dutch brethren, nor our Belgian ones. Maybe
> not even our German.
>
> I've got to wait until I see some more trustworthy rational behaviour in
> the Pirate Parties.
>
>
> Solutions, I have. But is the actual fuzzy and superficial, populistic
> dynamics of being Pirates able to put them to good use?
>
>
> I have to doubt it, much to my disappointment.
>
>
> Pirates should be... intelligent.
>
>
> Thank you for giving me the right occasion to table all this.
>
>
> Antonio.
> PP-ES
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: mozart.palmer at pp-international.net
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:52:36 +1000
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal
>
> Antonio…an honest question here.
>
> Over the past year or so since I've been on this list, and for the three
> or four months I was on the Court of Arbitration, I have not actually heard
> you say much that is positive.
>
> In fact, you seem very quick to criticise and very slow to offer any
> solutions.
>
> I appreciate that you have problems with me, and the rest of the
> current/previous CoA, but they seem more about causing trouble than
> anything else. You seem intent on removing the Catalonian Pirates, and I am
> not sure what this obsession is about. Surely Pirates should be inclusive,
> not discriminatory.
>
> So, Antonio, what are your solutions for fixing the state of the movement?
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