[pp.int.general] The true core Pirates principles -Serious attempt to get a workable consensus

[Antior]

This here is a list which is a combination of the pirate party and some 
kind of spiritual thoughts. Many pirates are not spiritual at all and 
therefore I cannot agree with it. These are not Pirate core issues.

Let me look at the points one by one.

Op 27-9-2012 1:08, pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net 
schreef:
> Another try, please mail me privately for questions directed straight at
> me. I hope that it will not create controversy, it is with the intention to
> unite the pirates globally. I added some new lines because of more feedback
> from elsewhere. I didn't include the universal human rights, they are too
> biased. (the sky is the limit, somehow, some-way, someday simultaneous
> singularity):
>
> *The right of protection of each individual human being* including :
> -  its privacy
Well, everybody will agree that this is a pirate core issue.
> -  its physical body (including DNA)
The first part is a human right. Of course it is important, but so 
self-evident that we shouldn't clutter pirate issues with it. The second 
part, I am guessing you mean storage of DNA for identification purposes? 
DNA contains private information about oneself, so that belongs with 
privacy.
> -  its impartiality
Once again, this is important, because it's necessary for democracy. 
Once again, this is self-evident and something every party in a 
democratic country wants. Why clutter pirate issues with it?
> -  juridical
Do you mean the right for a fair trial? Actually, that seems to be 
broken in certain countries. Trials are much too expensive for regular 
citizens, and some courts always seem to rule in favour of corporations 
in copyright cases. An important issue. Maybe this could be at the 
pirate party side-lines. It is a requirement for a free and fair system, 
not so much a goal in itself.
> -  against unfair competition and corporatocracy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy
Here we are getting to copyright abuse. That is without doubt a core issue.
> -  the under-aged as a group with extra protection
Self-evident, no need to make this a core isue.
>
> *With the right of:*
> -  a reasonable transparent legislature and transparent public
> organisations http://www.transparency.org/
I think this could fit.
> -  self-determination of its fate and body (including the unborn).
First of all, to me a pregnant woman also has self-determination of her 
fate and body, even if this body includes an unthinking blob of cells 
that might one day grow to become a human baby. Considering abortion, I 
think it is important that both people who are in favour of it or do not 
have a choice; and people who are against abortion should be able to 
live together without smashing each other's heads in. This starts at 
freedom of expression and goes much further. I would call it a 'right to 
be allowed to lead your own life as you wish'. True liberalism (as 
opposed to corporate 'liberalism' some parties seem to promote).

I believe the best thing the pirate party can do is stay away from the 
abortion debate, keep a neutral stance, and express the opinion that 
both 'sides' are allowed to feel the way they do as long as they let 
others go their way. This point, as you state it, can therefore not be a 
core issue.
> -  being impartially reviewed whether on sex, believe, race, etc.
I think you just quoted the first article of the Dutch constitution. :) 
I am guessing something similar is also in the universal bill of human 
rights. While this is self-evident to me, it is not to a lot of 
people/countries. However, core issues. I think not discriminating on 
sex, religion or race is something to do in your acts, not in your 
words. I am not certain if it belongs in a list of pirate core issues.
> -  freely using natural drugs or natural therapies, natural cures, or
> natural medicines (like homoeopathy and so on). *I don't name all drugs,
> because synthetic (and halve-synthetic) drugs are not natural and have to
> come under the medical licence scheme, Or to put it in another way, these
> chemicals need regulation, so no you can not have 100 gram of cocaine a day
> from your chemist :)*
Difficult one. First of all, as someone said, many 'natural' drugs are 
very toxic. Some of them are even sold without any regulation. Others 
are banned or restricted with good reason (Such as the natural product 
cocaine, which occurs in coca leaves). One of the things the 
pharmaceutical industry does is take a natural drug and change it 
composition to make it safe for consumption. For instance, the very 
dangerous painkiller 'salicylic acid' from birch trees has been changed 
to 'acetylsalicylic acid', a painkiller that is relatively safe, it has 
a lot less side effects. It's been sold for over a century now with the 
name Aspirin.
However, people are in principle free to use whatever they want, but 
this is only possible if there is enough information available about 
side-effects, the way it (supposedly) works etc. Informing works better 
than banning. Maybe every product that is being sold as a 'healing' item 
in the broadest sense of the word needs a scientific information 
leaflet? Just thinking aloud here. In any case, unproven products should 
in my opinion not ever be covered under any medical insurance, 
especially if it's a government-backed insurance.

Anyway, to get back to the point: This is once again a general issue of 
true liberalism. I wouldn't call it a pirate core issue as such.

> -  freedom of expression of opinion with a minimum of respect towards
> anybody
Freedom of expression is of course another basic human right, but as it 
is required for the freedom of information the pirates want, I think it 
could fit in.
> -  direct voting on the legislature or to have it delegated (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliberative_democracy)
No. It's become clear that many pirate parties prefer a kind of 
representative democracy like we have now. This is not something pirate 
parties agree on, so of course it cannot be a core issue.
> -  to be informed of and access to personal data and the right to correct
> or comment
This is an extension of privacy and sounds good.
> -  form / join freely a cooperation (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism)
This is at least part of the law in many countries considered free. 
While it is again a liberal point of view, I don't see what it has to do 
with pirates.
> -  growing up to become adult with a guarantee on protection, support, care
> and education.
I personally agree with this, but once again there is a need to look at 
the views of all pirates. The 'guarantee on protection, support, care' 
is of course important. But if I'm correct, true liberals feel that this 
should not be guaranteed by the government, but by parents or 
caretakers. This is why this should not be a core issue of a political 
party. Education is a bit different, because a basic education is 
required to understand information, which is necessary in the pirate 
ideal society, with complete freedom of information.
> -  free access to medical, scientific and technological knowledge and
> education
Extension of freedom of information. Yes.
> -  minimal healthcare
> -  minimal social assistance
I think these are important, but they are not pirate issues. The 'big 
parties' can take care of this. We have to focus on our own ideology.
> -  contentious relationships with others in their own chosen way (*ex.when
> people decide to live in a commune or same sex relations etc. as long as it
> is with everyone's free will*)
General liberal point of view, good, but not really a pirate core issue.
> -  making the marginal error (*because nobody is perfect*)
Uh, yes? Everyone can agree on that. Why does this need to be a 
political point of view?
>
> *With the obligation *(*nobody likes to hear them*)*:*
> -  of healthy water, and healthy grown nutrition
Healthy water is not an obligation but a right. A basic human one. 
Important, yes. But once again, outside of the pirate ideology.
> -  transparent information on ingredients of processed food and
> beverages and all other products.
Extension of freedom of information. Yes
> -  to respect the law defined by the legislature (*I explain why this is
> important, as the pirate party we have a agreement to cooperate as a group,
> without agreement, like disrespecting the rules, there is no common pirate
> party, just like national law that one day will be replaced
> with an internal law once everybody is properly supported and educated)*
While someone said this is very difficult in countries with restricted 
laws, where for instance political parties are not allowed, I think this 
has some importance. The goal of the pirate parties has always been to 
change the world... THROUGH LEGAL MEANS. This is why we are not 
'Lulzsec' and pirate parties do usually not (officially) run a website 
where you can directly download copyrighted content. Some run proxies 
and the like, because these are indirect redirections, which are luckily 
still legal in many countries.
> -  to actively contribute to these principles (*without input nothing moves*
> )
Self-evident. No need for this at all.
> -  to respect everybody as they expect to be respected by everybody (*no
> abuse, no violence, nettiquette*)
Self-evident and not a pirate core issue.
> -  to be held responsible for their own behaviour and acts (*you break
> something, you pay*)
Idem.
> -  to become more loveable, peaceful and happy :)
This is a core issue alright. Of the My Little Pony party.
>
> *With the demand of:*
> *- * The information society needs complete new rulings (preserve openness,
> change copyright laws on digital data, internet as public space/good,
> reforming patent law and ipr etc.)
Pirate party core issue, yes.
> -  freedom (as in: restrictions need rationale justification,
> no restricting of behaviour which doesn't harm anyone)
I am not certain. While you keep it general like this, I think it could 
fit. All the extensions on general liberty above make it too much.
> -  accountability (additional legislature?)
> -  traceability (additional legislature?)
For legislators? Yeah, that seems an extension of transparant 
government. I think transparant government is a core issue.
> -  inclusive humanism (tolerance and rationality:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism)
Nothing wrong with humanism, but other philosophies are also allowed by 
pirates. Not a core issue.
> -  a healthy and sustainable global environment
Green parties can take care of that fine. No need to clutter pirate 
parties with this. No.
> -  abolishment of war, only in self-defence and to protect international
> humanitarian aid missions
I would agree, but I am not sure if all pirates would. Some people 
believe that wars abroad can increase freedom in the end. I think it's 
safer to not make this a core issue.
> -  abolishment of arms-trade over national borders. (*making money on
> arms-trade is against humanity but we can not deny that we need a peoples
> army to protect souveranity. So hence we need to produce arms to
> counterbalance the world against the savage nature and heritage in present
> times. But to produce arms to protect ourself and then SELL them abroad is
> NOT COMMON SENSE. The way out is stopping proliferation is by stopping
> export*)
I agree, but I still thinks this falls outside the pirate party 
ideology. However, a transparant government also includes transparant 
money and product flows. If the general public sees where weapons go, 
this might cause quite a stir.
> -  more free public parties
If you mean everyone should be free to start a political party, I agree. 
If you mean more stuff like Project X Haren... urgh. However, everyone 
is free to throw a party in their backyard or to organise a bigger one, 
as long as they don't bother others. Supply and demand, nothing to be 
forced by politics.
>
> *methods:*
> - occams razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor)
> - K.I.S.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.I.S.S.)
> - the pirate wheel:
> http://falkvinge.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/manual/PirateWheel-2011-11-13.pdf
>   (*or any better alternative*)
> - Liquid Feedback: http://liquidfeedback.org/ (*or any better alternative*)
First of all, methods cannot be core issues at all. All they are is 
methods. Secondly, I can't say I fully agree with the pirate wheel... at 
least not as a basis for core issues. Many pirates do not agree with 
liquid feedback 'or a better alternative', so this one doesn't fit in 
either.
> the good news, there are more rights then obligations. lol
>
>   And I hope that a lot of  mothers like it too, they are with voting very aware of the future for their children !

Are you a mother? No offense, but I think it might cloud your judgement 
a bit. There is a lot stuff I like, and also some stuff I don't like in 
your list.
I tried to look beyond that. It doesnt't matter what I do or do not 
like. It doesn't matter what mothers do or do not like.
The only thing that matters is what pirates in general agree on. It is 
very very difficult to speak for everyone, but it is not too hard to 
look beyond my own views. I tried to do that here

And I think it all boils down to the following very general goals:
- General freedom of information
- - Right to access of information
- - Right to internet access
- - Right of freedom of expression
- - Right to re-use and remix information
- - Obligation to give credit where credit's due

 From this follows:
- -  Reforms of 'intellectual property' laws. Copyright laws need to be 
changed for the right to access of information and the right to re-use 
and remix information. Patent laws need to be changed for the right to 
re-use information. Trademarks can be used for recognition purposes for 
the credit where credit's due obligation, but this obligation also needs 
to be part of any law that gives people the right to re-use or remix 
copyrighted and patented data.

- Right of personal privacy
- - Access to personal data
- -  Right to comment (or delete?) personal data

- Transparancy of legislations (although... in a sense this could even 
fit with freedom of information)
- - Accountability of legislators (Do we agree on this one?)
- - Transparancy of the law-making process
- - Transparancy of the governing process, including government finances.

In the end, I made three pirate core issues (freedom of information, 
right of personal privacy, and transparancy of legislations). The 
sub-points are more of an explanation of how these three issues could be 
'covered' in law. I realize those sub-points may differ for each 
legislation.

I think, with the large diversity of pirate parties, it is not possible 
to go into more detail than this, and it is not a good idea to 'pull' 
other issues into the list of core goals. One thing you may notice is 
that all three core issues are kind of "first world problems". It may be 
difficult to even think about them if more basic needs such as healthy 
water, democracy or self-determination are not granted. These issues 
will, once again, differ for each country. I think Anouk's list can be, 
in part, used to make a list of necessities that are needed BEFORE we 
can even get to our core issues.
If these necessities are not there in a certain legislation, the local 
pirate party can cooperate with other parties in order to make the 
necessary legislation. Once that is done, the party can focus for 100% 
on the true core issues.

I never saw the Pirate movement as an organisation that tries to fix ALL 
the world's problems. We try to fix a tiny part of it, that is important 
to US, and hopefully to many voters as well. Let the big parties think 
about solving all other issues. We will free information and protect 
privacy and keep to that. Please don't claim any personal points of view 
as Pirate issues. We have chosen to not go beyond a small set of 
*directly achievable* goals for a reason.

Of course, as far as I'm concerned, any local pirate party is completely 
free to add as many other issues to their party programme as they like, 
as long as they don't directly oppose the small set of core goals. But 
for international cooperation, we need to keep to our original purpose, 
and not widen it in any way.

- Antior