[pp.int.general] The true core Pirates principles -Serious attempt to get a workable consensus - TLDR version

[Anton Nordenfur]

Disagree all you want, but try being civil. Starting a reply off with 
"I've read through all the crap" does nothing but stop me from reading.

--
Anton Nordenfur
<anton at nordenfur.se>

Den 27 September 2012 12:20:01 skrev Antonio Garcia:
> I see.
>
> I've read through all the crap.
>
> You very methodically proceeded to strip out of Anouk's effort
> absolutely everything not in line with your strict liberal views. That
> is your strict right of opinion, of course, I would not fight that...
>
> ... however, your views, and how you go around about them... just got
> you 0,3% of the national vote in an important election ;) . In times
> when neighbouring pirates reach more or less 8%. You must be doing
> something utterly wrong, even if you do not want to admit it... for
> whatever sake.
>
>
> You can go on blocking any way you can any innovation on the matter,
> and you will probably stay around 0,3% in future elections.
>
>
> Being a Pirate is about hacking around the petrified beliefs and
> processes that have intertwined so badly along our past evolution that
> most of the people are unable to understand the world we live in, and
> trying to put it back on an healthy track towards (happy) coexistence
> for all...
>
> ... therefore, you must try to understand what happened in the past
> and for what reasons, what happens today, and have some kind of idea,
> at the right scale, of how you could bend all that in a way that might
> help you steer the evolution of society at large towards a view of
> what should be... much more compatible with your core values, BUT also
> as compatible as possible with what the global people at large might
> want to accept as a liveable society.
>
> If you have nothing to trade... you get nothing in exchange.
>
> So I'm afraid (yes right, so far it is only me, unless I get cheered
> ;) ) that you will not be able to outgrow your actual positions and
> prosper, make us all prosper.
>
> What you do or do not like... really matters, it gets aggregated into
> the total product and conditions what is possible or not depending on
> how vocal you are about your input. Judging from what happened at the
> PPI GA 2012 in Prague... I would say being too vocal with wrong ideas
> can derail us all. If you tried to look beyond your own views, and
> succeeded... then these must be in some way off the clean liberal path
> ;) , because you did not stray one inch from that one (otherwise
> perfectly recognisable in the Dutch Pirate Parties track record). But
> I believe it is much easier to believe you just failed in your stated
> intention.
>
> Antonio.
> PP-ES
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:30:35 +0200
> > From: antior at piratenpartij.nl
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] The true core Pirates principles
> -Serious attempt to get a workable consensus - TLDR version
> >
> > TLDR; Pirate core values according to me.
> >
> > This is the last part of my previous mail. If you don't want to read
> > through all the extra crap I've written there, at least read this
> message.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > It doesnt't matter what I do or do not like. The only thing that
> matters
> > is what pirates in general agree on. It is very very difficult to speak
> > for everyone, but it is not too hard to look beyond my own views. I
> > tried to do that here.
> >
> > And I think it all boils down to the following very general goals:
> > - General freedom of information
> > - - Right to access of information
> > - - Right to internet access
> > - - Right of freedom of expression
> > - - Right to re-use and remix information
> > - - Obligation to give credit where credit's due
> >
> > From this follows:
> > - - Reforms of 'intellectual property' laws. Copyright laws need to be
> > changed for the right to access of information and the right to re-use
> > and remix information. Patent laws need to be changed for the right to
> > re-use information. Trademarks can be used for recognition purposes for
> > the credit where credit's due obligation, but this obligation also
> needs
> > to be part of any law that gives people the right to re-use or remix
> > copyrighted and patented data.
> >
> > - Right of personal privacy
> > - - Access to personal data
> > - - Right to comment (or delete?) personal data
> >
> > - Transparancy of legislations (although... in a sense this could even
> > fit with freedom of information)
> > - - Accountability of legislators (Do we agree on this one?)
> > - - Transparancy of the law-making process
> > - - Transparancy of the governing process, including government
> finances.
> >
> > Freedom of information, right of personal privacy and transparancy of
> > legislations are the core goals. The sub-points are more of an
> > explanation or example of how these three issues could be 'covered'
> in law.
> >
> > I never saw the Pirate movement as an organisation that tries to fix
> ALL
> > the world's problems. We try to fix a tiny part of it, that is
> important
> > to US, and hopefully to many voters as well. Let the big parties think
> > about solving all other issues. We will free information and protect
> > privacy and keep to that. Please don't claim any personal points of
> view
> > as Pirate issues. We have chosen to not go beyond a small set of
> > *directly achievable* goals for a reason.
> >
> > I think local pirate parties are free to add as many other issues to
> > their programme as they like, as long as they don't directly oppose the
> > core goals. It may even be necessary in order to deal with local laws.
> > But internationally, we need to keep to our original limited purpose,
> > and not widen it in any way.
> >
> > - Antior
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
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