[pp.int.general] The true core Pirates principles -Serious attempt to get a workable consensus - TLDR version

[Zbigniew Łukasiak]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I see.
>
> I've read through all the crap.
>
> You very methodically proceeded to strip out of Anouk's effort absolutely
> everything not in line with your strict liberal views. That is your strict
> right of opinion, of course, I would not fight that...
>
> ... however, your views, and how you go around about them... just got you
> 0,3% of the national vote in an important election ;) . In times when
> neighbouring pirates reach more or less 8%. You must be doing something
> utterly wrong, even if you do not want to admit it... for whatever sake.

This is a different situation.  Individual parties need to get votes
from the population, they need to have programs that appeal to the
people - but these programs don't need to be identical from party to
party, in each country there are different circumstances and also we
want to try out different strategies in different national parties to
see what works and what does not.  We want the parties to copy from
each other and spread the knowledge of what works and what does not.
We don't need to make one common program for all the parties to accept
- what we need is a boundary for all such programs - a way to say OK -
this can be a Pirate Party program - and this one cannot.  I believe
that the right methodology for getting at such boundary would be to
start from the things that everyone agrees, that would not be vetoed
from anyone - and then to discuss what we can add to this set.

By the way I don't really buy this effectiveness argument - I noticed
that the Catalonian party made a similar argument against your ideas -
I think your answer to that was that they are populist which can be a
good answer or not I don't know - but in general it should give you a
second thought before throwing it against the Dutch.

> You can go on blocking any way you can any innovation on the matter, and you
> will probably stay around 0,3% in future elections.

A minimal core has the opposite effect of what you suggest - with the
minimal set of core values every individual party will be free to add
whatever they want.  It is the exhaustive list that blocks the
individual parties from choosing their own variants.

I'll skip the rest for now.

Cheers,
Zbigniew