[pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013

Wed Apr 3 14:51:10 CEST 2013

Your wishful thinking is pathetic.

I do not need to be a delegate to Kazan for the Spanish Pirate Party to have inalienable rights. I have these on my own as a human being, and as an equal among pirates.

By their own Rules of Procedure, provisional as they might be but deemed temporarily enforceable unless a General Assembly ruled otherwise (which, thanks to the terrible efficiency of General Assemblies has not happened yet :) )... anonymous complaints are acceptable in matters regarding infringement of PPI Statutes.

What happened at the PPI GA in Prague and showed up in several CoA rulings qualifies largely as such.

So, no matter how cleverly you or anybody else thought he was scheming... you are fucked assholes.

And PPI and PPI Board are walking on eggs in this...

Antonio.

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 14:02:23 +0200
Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference	Kazan	2013
From: kenneth at pirata.cat
To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net

All your logic goes linked to your personal wishes, not to rules or statutes.
Current PPI statutes don't accept personal/annonymous complaints, so stop crying and at least get recognized as the official delegate of your party before complaining/crying/begging any longer.
So far, for what I know, your fellow party members don't want you to represent them at all.
Go fix that or shout up :)
Be really logic, my friend. Don't just say you are .

Salut! 
Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".

I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter since it was duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of Arbitration.

And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly because the GA is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver, and because its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General Assembly.

Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan Pirate Party are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.

And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and ETHICAL questions within PPI...

... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe harbour for logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e ruled out if PPI utterly fails in this.

Either way... you are done.

Antonio.

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference	Kazan	2013
From: kenneth at pirata.cat
To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net

To propose anything... You need to do it through your officiap representatives.
The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members, and so far you haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.

Salut! 
Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering participation costs for remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.

Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to benefit Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.

Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.

Remember,  there was such an interest in organizing this in Russia... that there were two concurrent bids from there.

Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection process was crafted... were densely populated with participants.

Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for Kiev... theoretically stealth approved through "administrative silence"... from Gregory?

Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue for Kazan is not the originally offered venue anymore.

Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most expensive in the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for local russians and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel budgets.

And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily find straw men to hold his many delegation representations. How many this time, Gregory?

Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically working with his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and 150.000 rubles of personal subsidies.

I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate Movement in such a short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership and vision in the Pirate Swarm.

It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well how to navigate with populism and mob rule.

If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against logic and ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I witnessed that in utter awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous GAs)... then the Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.

One single and simple test to begin with:

1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full member of the PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the Assembly, and mob rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc competence of the General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the Australian Pirate Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required two-thirds majority.

The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and consciously violated in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will certainly be awarded the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is created.

I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable consequences complaint to the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get the backing of a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully following the published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court of Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of disapproval anywhere- that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case of infringement to the PPI Statutes.

There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving its goal... render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not resolve into a result it could not tamper with.

PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy way it offered Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the Court of Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the Swiss could be happy with or show muscle... and they folded.

As the voting rights of a bogus member are being contested... either we solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then maybe more members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed remote participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out during the two days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money and time for all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate movement already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.

Antonio García.
(by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official member of the Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ). 

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200
From: jelena.the.one at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan	2013

I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on this list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.

that's what I am doing, that's community management, not campaign and advertising :) thanx for having time to reply
I really believe conference fees should be none for remote participants, since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e Gregory, but fees are 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au> wrote:

>Jelena said:

>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking. And there 
is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face 2 face. 

That's
 good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have the spare 
funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we can't afford to 
fund them out of our limited budget.

>I think conference few should be much lower for remote participants. Or it should be no fee at all. 

Those
 of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to attend. Leaving 
us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year? Will it be 
any better than previous years? 

I think I speak for many non-European 
parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and evidence that we 
wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years GA is as farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to crumble.

>PPI has no budget, and I as a board member didn't use any 
money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe) could be 
given from PP DE. 
>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
 and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign 
>(managing FB ads from 
Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about price per 
click / per 1000 views) 

I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on this list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.

>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to 
Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to send board to 
PPI conference. 
>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying 
from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel and it was 
cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans. 

Surely
 remote participation would be more important than ever, yet despite 
repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a response 
reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will be able to 
participate and that remote delegates will be taken seriously.

What does the Board want the money for? How much does it want?

We are reluctant 
to give money 
to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from, with no idea 
what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't tell is 
basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly attacking us
 for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to Russia doesn't 
exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will be used 
wisely.

Mab wrote:

>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for 
our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed 
>quite a few 
fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely
 text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that 
>people can attend 
regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of 
voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate 
>that everyone can vote.

This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for PPI.

Regards

Simon

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM,  <mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se> wrote:

The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a few fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.

I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which, given its delegate system, would have far less participants.

If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the technical know-how of how to set up a web forum.

All the best

Mab

PP-SE

EU-branch

On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:

We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where we verify

who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer monitors

IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think it costs

about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a Mumble

server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the gear it

cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can provide a lot

of infrastructure out of their own gear.

It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on Google+, PP

California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting once) and

it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent privacy

implications but it has video and is free.

If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might as well

hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour of hosting

the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too. Just start

it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early to

attend. ;)

Regards

Simon

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <rata_0071 at hotmail.com> wrote:

2013/4/1 Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>

We run remote participation for every congress in Australia and it costs virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how to do it. The idea it is expensive is false.

Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a virtual GA?

At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if you dont miss video.

If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well have a parallel virtual GA

regards

aza

President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)

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-- 
Jelena Jovanović about.me/cybernaut 

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