[pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013

[kenneth at pirata.cat]

Antonio, points are points, insults are insults. You simply keep on
insulting anyone not supporting your desires.


Is insulting people an acceptable behaviour in this mailing list?

This is a formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.


Regards,

Kenneth












On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:51:10 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Your wishful thinking is pathetic.
> 
> I do not need to be a delegate to Kazan for the Spanish Pirate Party to
> have inalienable rights. I have these on my own as a human being, and as
an
> equal among pirates.
> 
> By their own Rules of Procedure, provisional as they might be but deemed
> temporarily enforceable unless a General Assembly ruled otherwise
(which,
> thanks to the terrible efficiency of General Assemblies has not happened
> yet :) )... anonymous complaints are acceptable in matters regarding
> infringement of PPI Statutes.
> 
> What happened at the PPI GA in Prague and showed up in several CoA
rulings
> qualifies largely as such.
> 
> 
> So, no matter how cleverly you or anybody else thought he was
scheming...
> you are fucked assholes.
> 
> 
> And PPI and PPI Board are walking on eggs in this...
> 
> 
> 
> Antonio.
> 
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 14:02:23 +0200
> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> Conference	Kazan	2013
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> 
> All your logic goes linked to your personal wishes, not to rules or
> statutes.
> Current PPI statutes don't accept personal/annonymous complaints, so
stop
> crying and at least get recognized as the official delegate of your
party
> before complaining/crying/begging any longer.
> So far, for what I know, your fellow party members don't want you to
> represent them at all.
> Go fix that or shout up :)
> Be really logic, my friend. Don't just say you are .
> 
> 
> Salut! 
> Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".
> 
> I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter since it was
> duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of Arbitration.
> 
> And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly because the GA
> is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver, and because
> its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General Assembly.
> 
> Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan Pirate Party
> are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.
> 
> 
> And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and ETHICAL
> questions within PPI...
> 
> ... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe harbour for
> logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e ruled out if
PPI
> utterly fails in this.
> 
> 
> Either way... you are done.
> 
> 
> Antonio.
> 
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> Conference	Kazan	2013
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> 
> To propose anything... You need to do it through your officiap
> representatives.
> The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members, and so far
you
> haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.
> 
> 
> Salut! 
> Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering participation costs for
> remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.
> 
> Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to benefit
> Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.
> 
> Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.
> 
> Remember,  there was such an interest in organizing this in Russia...
that
> there were two concurrent bids from there.
> 
> Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection process was
> crafted... were densely populated with participants.
> 
> Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for Kiev...
> theoretically stealth approved through "administrative silence"... from
> Gregory?
> 
> Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue for Kazan is
> not the originally offered venue anymore.
> 
> Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most expensive in
> the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for local russians
> and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel budgets.
> 
> And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily find straw
men
> to hold his many delegation representations. How many this time,
Gregory?
> 
> 
> Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically working with
> his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and 150.000 rubles
of
> personal subsidies.
> 
> 
> I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate Movement in such a
> short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership and vision in
the
> Pirate Swarm.
> 
> It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well how to
> navigate with populism and mob rule.
> 
> 
> If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against logic and
> ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I witnessed that in
utter
> awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous GAs)... then
the
> Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.
> 
> 
> One single and simple test to begin with:
> 
> 1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full member of
the
> PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the Assembly, and
mob
> rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc competence of the
> General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the Australian
Pirate
> Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required two-thirds
> majority.
> 
> The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and consciously
violated
> in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will certainly be awarded
> the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is created.
> 
> I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable consequences complaint
to
> the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get the backing
of
> a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully following
the
> published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court of
> Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of disapproval
anywhere-
> that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case of
> infringement to the PPI Statutes.
> 
> There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving its goal...
> render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not resolve into
a
> result it could not tamper with.
> 
> PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy way it offered
> Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the Court of
> Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the Swiss could
be
> happy with or show muscle... and they folded.
> 
> 
> As the voting rights of a bogus member are being contested... either we
> solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then maybe more
> members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed remote
> participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out during the two
> days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money and time for
> all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate movement
> already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.
> 
> 
> Antonio García.
> (by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official member of the
> Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ). 
> 
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200
> From: jelena.the.one at gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference
> Kazan	2013
> 
> I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
this
> list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.
> 
> that's what I am doing, that's community management, not campaign and
> advertising :) thanx for having time to reply
> I really believe conference fees should be none for remote participants,
> since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e Gregory, but fees
are
> 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.
> 
>  
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew
<simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> wrote:
> 
>>Jelena said:
> 
>>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking. And there 
> is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face 2 face. 
> 
> That's
>  good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have the spare 
> funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we can't afford to 
> fund them out of our limited budget.
> 
> 
>>I think conference few should be much lower for remote participants. Or
>>it should be no fee at all.
> 
> Those
>  of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to attend. Leaving 
> us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year? Will it be 
> any better than previous years? 
> 
> I think I speak for many non-European 
> parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and evidence that we 
> wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years GA is as
> farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to crumble.
> 
> 
>>PPI has no budget, and I as a board member didn't use any 
> money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe) could be 
> given from PP DE. 
>>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
>  and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign 
>>(managing FB ads from 
> Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about price per 
> click / per 1000 views) 
> 
> I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
this
> list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.
> 
> 
> 
>>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to 
> Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to send board to 
> PPI conference. 
>>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying 
> from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel and it was 
> cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans. 
> 
> Surely
>  remote participation would be more important than ever, yet despite 
> repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a response 
> reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will be able to 
> participate and that remote delegates will be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> What does the Board want the money for? How much does it want?
> 
> We are reluctant 
> to give money 
> to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from, with no idea 
> what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't tell is 
> basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly attacking us
>  for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to Russia doesn't 
> exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will be used 
> wisely.
> 
> Mab wrote:
> 
>>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for 
> our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed 
>>quite a few 
> fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely
>  text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that 
>>people can attend 
> regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of 
> voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate 
>>that everyone can vote.
> 
> This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for PPI.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM,  <mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for
our
> general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a few fetures
to
> make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely text based
> and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend regardless of when
> they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting spans at
least
> 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which, given its
> delegate system, would have far less participants.
> 
> 
> 
> If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the technical
know-how
> of how to set up a web forum.
> 
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> 
> 
> Mab
> 
> PP-SE
> 
> EU-branch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:
> 
> 
> We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where we verify
> 
> who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer monitors
> 
> IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think it costs
> 
> about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a Mumble
> 
> server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the gear it
> 
> cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can provide a lot
> 
> of infrastructure out of their own gear.
> 
> 
> 
> It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on Google+, PP
> 
> California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting once) and
> 
> it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent privacy
> 
> implications but it has video and is free.
> 
> 
> 
> If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might as well
> 
> hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour of hosting
> 
> the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too. Just start
> 
> it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early to
> 
> attend. ;)
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <rata_0071 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013/4/1 Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We run remote participation for every congress in Australia and it costs
> virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how to do it.
The
> idea it is expensive is false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a virtual GA?
> 
> 
> 
> At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if you dont miss
> video.
> 
> 
> 
> If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well have a
parallel
> virtual GA
> 
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> aza
> 
> 
> 
> President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
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> 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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> 
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> 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> 
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
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> 
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> 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> 
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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> 
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> 
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