[pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013
Antonio Garcia
ningunotro at hotmail.com
Wed Apr 3 15:17:19 CEST 2013
After the infamous letter you posted lately, I must say I admire your ignorant guts :) .
Antonio.
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:51 +0200
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com
> CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013
>
> Antonio, points are points, insults are insults. You simply keep on
> insulting anyone not supporting your desires.
>
>
> Is insulting people an acceptable behaviour in this mailing list?
>
> This is a formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:51:10 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Your wishful thinking is pathetic.
> >
> > I do not need to be a delegate to Kazan for the Spanish Pirate Party to
> > have inalienable rights. I have these on my own as a human being, and as
> an
> > equal among pirates.
> >
> > By their own Rules of Procedure, provisional as they might be but deemed
> > temporarily enforceable unless a General Assembly ruled otherwise
> (which,
> > thanks to the terrible efficiency of General Assemblies has not happened
> > yet :) )... anonymous complaints are acceptable in matters regarding
> > infringement of PPI Statutes.
> >
> > What happened at the PPI GA in Prague and showed up in several CoA
> rulings
> > qualifies largely as such.
> >
> >
> > So, no matter how cleverly you or anybody else thought he was
> scheming...
> > you are fucked assholes.
> >
> >
> > And PPI and PPI Board are walking on eggs in this...
> >
> >
> >
> > Antonio.
> >
> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 14:02:23 +0200
> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> > Conference Kazan 2013
> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > All your logic goes linked to your personal wishes, not to rules or
> > statutes.
> > Current PPI statutes don't accept personal/annonymous complaints, so
> stop
> > crying and at least get recognized as the official delegate of your
> party
> > before complaining/crying/begging any longer.
> > So far, for what I know, your fellow party members don't want you to
> > represent them at all.
> > Go fix that or shout up :)
> > Be really logic, my friend. Don't just say you are .
> >
> >
> > Salut!
> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> > You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".
> >
> > I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter since it was
> > duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of Arbitration.
> >
> > And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly because the GA
> > is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver, and because
> > its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General Assembly.
> >
> > Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan Pirate Party
> > are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.
> >
> >
> > And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and ETHICAL
> > questions within PPI...
> >
> > ... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe harbour for
> > logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e ruled out if
> PPI
> > utterly fails in this.
> >
> >
> > Either way... you are done.
> >
> >
> > Antonio.
> >
> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> > Conference Kazan 2013
> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > To propose anything... You need to do it through your officiap
> > representatives.
> > The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members, and so far
> you
> > haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.
> >
> >
> > Salut!
> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> > It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering participation costs for
> > remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.
> >
> > Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to benefit
> > Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.
> >
> > Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.
> >
> > Remember, there was such an interest in organizing this in Russia...
> that
> > there were two concurrent bids from there.
> >
> > Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection process was
> > crafted... were densely populated with participants.
> >
> > Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for Kiev...
> > theoretically stealth approved through "administrative silence"... from
> > Gregory?
> >
> > Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue for Kazan is
> > not the originally offered venue anymore.
> >
> > Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most expensive in
> > the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for local russians
> > and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel budgets.
> >
> > And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily find straw
> men
> > to hold his many delegation representations. How many this time,
> Gregory?
> >
> >
> > Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically working with
> > his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and 150.000 rubles
> of
> > personal subsidies.
> >
> >
> > I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate Movement in such a
> > short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership and vision in
> the
> > Pirate Swarm.
> >
> > It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well how to
> > navigate with populism and mob rule.
> >
> >
> > If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against logic and
> > ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I witnessed that in
> utter
> > awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous GAs)... then
> the
> > Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.
> >
> >
> > One single and simple test to begin with:
> >
> > 1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full member of
> the
> > PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the Assembly, and
> mob
> > rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc competence of the
> > General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the Australian
> Pirate
> > Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required two-thirds
> > majority.
> >
> > The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and consciously
> violated
> > in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will certainly be awarded
> > the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is created.
> >
> > I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable consequences complaint
> to
> > the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get the backing
> of
> > a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully following
> the
> > published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court of
> > Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of disapproval
> anywhere-
> > that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case of
> > infringement to the PPI Statutes.
> >
> > There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving its goal...
> > render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not resolve into
> a
> > result it could not tamper with.
> >
> > PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy way it offered
> > Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the Court of
> > Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the Swiss could
> be
> > happy with or show muscle... and they folded.
> >
> >
> > As the voting rights of a bogus member are being contested... either we
> > solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then maybe more
> > members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed remote
> > participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out during the two
> > days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money and time for
> > all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate movement
> > already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.
> >
> >
> > Antonio García.
> > (by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official member of the
> > Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ).
> >
> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200
> > From: jelena.the.one at gmail.com
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference
> > Kazan 2013
> >
> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
> this
> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.
> >
> > that's what I am doing, that's community management, not campaign and
> > advertising :) thanx for having time to reply
> > I really believe conference fees should be none for remote participants,
> > since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e Gregory, but fees
> are
> > 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew
> <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Jelena said:
> >
> >>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking. And there
> > is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face 2 face.
> >
> > That's
> > good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have the spare
> > funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we can't afford to
> > fund them out of our limited budget.
> >
> >
> >>I think conference few should be much lower for remote participants. Or
> >>it should be no fee at all.
> >
> > Those
> > of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to attend. Leaving
> > us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year? Will it be
> > any better than previous years?
> >
> > I think I speak for many non-European
> > parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and evidence that we
> > wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years GA is as
> > farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to crumble.
> >
> >
> >>PPI has no budget, and I as a board member didn't use any
> > money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe) could be
> > given from PP DE.
> >>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
> > and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign
> >>(managing FB ads from
> > Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about price per
> > click / per 1000 views)
> >
> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
> this
> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are good.
> >
> >
> >
> >>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to
> > Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to send board to
> > PPI conference.
> >>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying
> > from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel and it was
> > cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans.
> >
> > Surely
> > remote participation would be more important than ever, yet despite
> > repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a response
> > reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will be able to
> > participate and that remote delegates will be taken seriously.
> >
> >
> > What does the Board want the money for? How much does it want?
> >
> > We are reluctant
> > to give money
> > to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from, with no idea
> > what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't tell is
> > basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly attacking us
> > for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to Russia doesn't
> > exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will be used
> > wisely.
> >
> > Mab wrote:
> >
> >>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for
> > our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed
> >>quite a few
> > fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely
> > text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that
> >>people can attend
> > regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round of
> > voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate
> >>that everyone can vote.
> >
> > This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for PPI.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM, <mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform for
> our
> > general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a few fetures
> to
> > make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely text based
> > and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend regardless of when
> > they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting spans at
> least
> > 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which, given its
> > delegate system, would have far less participants.
> >
> >
> >
> > If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the technical
> know-how
> > of how to set up a web forum.
> >
> >
> >
> > All the best
> >
> >
> >
> > Mab
> >
> > PP-SE
> >
> > EU-branch
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:
> >
> >
> > We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where we verify
> >
> > who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer monitors
> >
> > IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think it costs
> >
> > about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a Mumble
> >
> > server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the gear it
> >
> > cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can provide a lot
> >
> > of infrastructure out of their own gear.
> >
> >
> >
> > It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on Google+, PP
> >
> > California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting once) and
> >
> > it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent privacy
> >
> > implications but it has video and is free.
> >
> >
> >
> > If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might as well
> >
> > hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour of hosting
> >
> > the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too. Just start
> >
> > it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early to
> >
> > attend. ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <rata_0071 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/4/1 Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We run remote participation for every congress in Australia and it costs
> > virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how to do it.
> The
> > idea it is expensive is false.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a virtual GA?
> >
> >
> >
> > At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if you dont miss
> > video.
> >
> >
> >
> > If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well have a
> parallel
> > virtual GA
> >
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> > aza
> >
> >
> >
> > President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> >
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general [1]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> >
> > ------
> >
> > [1] http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> >
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> >
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> >
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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