[pp.int.general] Bickering on list (was Re: Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013)

kenneth at pirata.cat kenneth at pirata.cat
Wed Apr 3 16:07:14 CEST 2013


Completely agree.

Accept my apologies. I'll keep your message in mind.


Best regards,

Kenneth


On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 15:01:45 +0100, Stephen Ogden
<s.ogden at pirateparty.org.uk> wrote:
> Having been asked to speak up, I shall.
> 
> I have given thought to sending this email privately (as I advise below)
> rather than
> to the list, but at this point I think this does deserve being put
> publicly. As a
> community it is better we moderate ourselves than be moderated by
> individuals, and
> hopefully I speak for many in this community when I ask the following.
> 
> Antonio: Please refrain from hostile behaviour towards others - you do
not
> need to
> agree with someone to behave in a civil way. Likewise you do not need to
> behave in
> an uncivil way to those you do not agree with.
> 
> Kenneth: Can you also please refrain from your goading and taunting
> behaviour? If
> you don't have something helpful and productive that the majority (or
even
> a good
> sized minority) of the list will benefit from, please do consider
sending
> your
> emails privately rather than to the whole list.
> 
> Both/All: if you have an 'official' complaint against an individual
please
> submit
> them privately to where they need to go (if there is such a place).
Using
> the
> mailing list to complain tends to just be a rather un-veiled form of
> insulting
> someone, or perhaps an attempt to goad them into a negative response.
> 
> If there are individuals on this list that you do not respect, please at
> least
> respect yourself and everyone else by either not engaging with them, or
by
> treating
> them cordially. The moment you stoop to insults it doesn't matter if you
> are right
> or wrong, you has already started turning others against you.
> 
>   Stephen Ogden
>   
> 
> On 03/04/2013 14:42, Antonio Garcia wrote:
>> That is nice to know. So I may, together with al the international
>> colleagues on
>> this list, assume that the silence on the part of any Catalan Pirate
>> Party
>> individuals either under their personal authority or representing the
>> party... can
>> be understood as FULL SUPPORT for the behaviour of Kenneth and telltale
>> sign of
>> their logical and ethical standards?
>>
>> If PPI officials and fellow Pirate Party delegates from around the
world
>> also take
>> the silent approach as acceptance and likemindedness...
>>
>> ... well, I feel forced to ask everybody to speak up to avoid being
>> ranged among
>> those with that default behaviour.
>>
>> I would not like to blame innocent people further on.
>>
>>
>> Antonio.
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:28:08 +0200
>> From: jordi at soucheiron.cat
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference
>> Kazan 2013
>>
>> Dear Antonio,
>> As usual you're wrong, Kenneth as our spokesperson has our full
support.
>> Please
>> don't fill our inboxes with useless emails that divert the attention
from
>> important matters.
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/3 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com
>> <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>
>>     Formal?
>>
>>     You have plenipotenciary powers to decide this on your own, as in
>>     personally
>>     involved, on behalf of the whole of your party?
>>
>>
>>     A party which, it must be said, has not published a single comma on
>>     this list
>>     since you certainly shamed them so deeply...
>>
>>
>>     You must be out of your mind.
>>
>>
>>     Antonio.
>>
>>     > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:20:36 +0200
>>
>>     > From: kenneth at pirata.cat <mailto:kenneth at pirata.cat>
>>     > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>>     > CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
>>     > Conference Kazan 2013
>>     >
>>     > On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:17:19 +0000, Antonio Garcia
>>     > <ningunotro at hotmail.com
>>     <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>     > wrote:
>>     > > After the infamous letter you posted lately, I must say I
admire
>>     > > your
>>     > > ignorant guts :) .
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > Antonio.
>>     > >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > This is ANOTHER formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > >> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:51 +0200
>>     > >> From: kenneth at pirata.cat <mailto:kenneth at pirata.cat>
>>     > >> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>>     > >> CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
>>     > >> Conference Kazan 2013
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Antonio, points are points, insults are insults. You simply
>>     > >> keep on
>>     > >> insulting anyone not supporting your desires.
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Is insulting people an acceptable behaviour in this mailing
>>     > >> list?
>>     > >>
>>     > >> This is a formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Regards,
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Kenneth
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:51:10 +0000, Antonio Garcia
>>     > >> <ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>     > >> wrote:
>>     > >> > Your wishful thinking is pathetic.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I do not need to be a delegate to Kazan for the Spanish
>>     > >> > Pirate Party
>>     > to
>>     > >> > have inalienable rights. I have these on my own as a human
>>     > >> > being, and
>>     > >> > as
>>     > >> an
>>     > >> > equal among pirates.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > By their own Rules of Procedure, provisional as they might
be
>>     > >> > but
>>     > >> > deemed
>>     > >> > temporarily enforceable unless a General Assembly ruled
>>     > >> > otherwise
>>     > >> (which,
>>     > >> > thanks to the terrible efficiency of General Assemblies has
>>     > >> > not
>>     > >> > happened
>>     > >> > yet :) )... anonymous complaints are acceptable in matters
>>     > >> > regarding
>>     > >> > infringement of PPI Statutes.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > What happened at the PPI GA in Prague and showed up in
>>     > >> > several CoA
>>     > >> rulings
>>     > >> > qualifies largely as such.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > So, no matter how cleverly you or anybody else thought he
was
>>     > >> scheming...
>>     > >> > you are fucked assholes.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > And PPI and PPI Board are walking on eggs in this...
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Antonio.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 14:02:23 +0200
>>     > >> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
>>     > >> > Conference Kazan 2013
>>     > >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat <mailto:kenneth at pirata.cat>
>>     > >> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>;
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > All your logic goes linked to your personal wishes, not to
>>     > >> > rules or
>>     > >> > statutes.
>>     > >> > Current PPI statutes don't accept personal/annonymous
>>     > >> > complaints, so
>>     > >> stop
>>     > >> > crying and at least get recognized as the official delegate
>>     > >> > of your
>>     > >> party
>>     > >> > before complaining/crying/begging any longer.
>>     > >> > So far, for what I know, your fellow party members don't
want
>>     > >> > you to
>>     > >> > represent them at all.
>>     > >> > Go fix that or shout up :)
>>     > >> > Be really logic, my friend. Don't just say you are .
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Salut!
>>     > >> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com
>>     > >> > <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>     escribió:
>>     > >> > You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter
>>     > >> > since it
>>     > was
>>     > >> > duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of
>>     > Arbitration.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly
>>     > >> > because the
>>     > >> > GA
>>     > >> > is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver,
>>     > >> > and
>>     > >> > because
>>     > >> > its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General
>>     > >> > Assembly.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan
>>     > >> > Pirate
>>     > >> > Party
>>     > >> > are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and
>>     > >> > ETHICAL
>>     > >> > questions within PPI...
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe
>>     > >> > harbour
>>     > for
>>     > >> > logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e
>>     > >> > ruled out
>>     > if
>>     > >> PPI
>>     > >> > utterly fails in this.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Either way... you are done.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Antonio.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200
>>     > >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
>>     > >> > Conference Kazan 2013
>>     > >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat <mailto:kenneth at pirata.cat>
>>     > >> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>;
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > To propose anything... You need to do it through your
officiap
>>     > >> > representatives.
>>     > >> > The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members,
>>     > >> > and so far
>>     > >> you
>>     > >> > haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Salut!
>>     > >> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com
>>     > >> > <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>     escribió:
>>     > >> > It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering
participation
>>     > >> > costs
>>     > for
>>     > >> > remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to
>>     > >> > benefit
>>     > >> > Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, there was such an interest in organizing this in
>>     > >> > Russia...
>>     > >> that
>>     > >> > there were two concurrent bids from there.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection
>>     > >> > process was
>>     > >> > crafted... were densely populated with participants.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for
>>     > >> > Kiev...
>>     > >> > theoretically stealth approved through "administrative
>>     > >> > silence"...
>>     > from
>>     > >> > Gregory?
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue
>>     > >> > for Kazan
>>     > is
>>     > >> > not the originally offered venue anymore.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most
>>     > >> > expensive
>>     > in
>>     > >> > the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for
>>     > >> > local
>>     > >> > russians
>>     > >> > and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel
>>     > >> > budgets.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily
>>     > >> > find
>>     > straw
>>     > >> men
>>     > >> > to hold his many delegation representations. How many this
>>     > >> > time,
>>     > >> Gregory?
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically
>>     > >> > working
>>     > with
>>     > >> > his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and
>>     > >> > 150.000
>>     > >> > rubles
>>     > >> of
>>     > >> > personal subsidies.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate
>>     > >> > Movement in
>>     > such
>>     > >> > a
>>     > >> > short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership
and
>>     > >> > vision
>>     > in
>>     > >> the
>>     > >> > Pirate Swarm.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well
>>     > >> > how to
>>     > >> > navigate with populism and mob rule.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against
>>     > >> > logic and
>>     > >> > ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I
witnessed
>>     > >> > that in
>>     > >> utter
>>     > >> > awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous
>>     > >> > GAs)... then
>>     > >> the
>>     > >> > Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > One single and simple test to begin with:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > 1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full
>>     > >> > member
>>     > of
>>     > >> the
>>     > >> > PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the
>>     > >> > Assembly, and
>>     > >> mob
>>     > >> > rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc
>>     > >> > competence of
>>     > the
>>     > >> > General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the
>>     > >> > Australian
>>     > >> Pirate
>>     > >> > Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required
>>     > >> > two-thirds
>>     > >> > majority.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and
>>     > >> > consciously
>>     > >> violated
>>     > >> > in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will
certainly
>>     > >> > be
>>     > >> > awarded
>>     > >> > the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is
created.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable
consequences
>>     > complaint
>>     > >> to
>>     > >> > the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get
>>     > >> > the
>>     > backing
>>     > >> of
>>     > >> > a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully
>>     > >> > following
>>     > >> the
>>     > >> > published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court
of
>>     > >> > Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of
>>     > >> > disapproval
>>     > >> anywhere-
>>     > >> > that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case
>>     > >> > of
>>     > >> > infringement to the PPI Statutes.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving
its
>>     > >> > goal...
>>     > >> > render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not
>>     > >> > resolve
>>     > into
>>     > >> a
>>     > >> > result it could not tamper with.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy
way
>>     > >> > it
>>     > >> > offered
>>     > >> > Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the
>>     > >> > Court of
>>     > >> > Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the
>>     > >> > Swiss
>>     > could
>>     > >> be
>>     > >> > happy with or show muscle... and they folded.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > As the voting rights of a bogus member are being
contested...
>>     > >> > either
>>     > we
>>     > >> > solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then
>>     > >> > maybe
>>     > more
>>     > >> > members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed
>>     > >> > remote
>>     > >> > participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out
>>     > >> > during the
>>     > two
>>     > >> > days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money
>>     > >> > and time
>>     > >> > for
>>     > >> > all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate
>>     > >> > movement
>>     > >> > already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Antonio García.
>>     > >> > (by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official
>>     > >> > member of the
>>     > >> > Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ).
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200
>>     > >> > From: jelena.the.one at gmail.com
>>     > >> > <mailto:jelena.the.one at gmail.com>
>>     > >> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
>>     > >> > Conference
>>     > >> > Kazan 2013
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting
>>     > >> > ideas on
>>     > >> this
>>     > >> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas
>>     > >> > are
>>     > good.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > that's what I am doing, that's community management, not
>>     > >> > campaign and
>>     > >> > advertising :) thanx for having time to reply
>>     > >> > I really believe conference fees should be none for remote
>>     > >> > participants,
>>     > >> > since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e
Gregory,
>>     > >> > but
>>     > fees
>>     > >> are
>>     > >> > 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew
>>     > >> <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au
>>     > >> <mailto:simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>>
>>     > >> > wrote:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>Jelena said:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking.
>>     > >> >>And
>>     > there
>>     > >> > is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face
2
>>     > >> > face.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > That's
>>     > >> > good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have
>>     > >> > the
>>     > spare
>>     > >> > funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we
can't
>>     > >> > afford
>>     > >> > to
>>     > >> > fund them out of our limited budget.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>I think conference few should be much lower for remote
>>     > >> >>participants.
>>     > Or
>>     > >> >>it should be no fee at all.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Those
>>     > >> > of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to
attend.
>>     > >> > Leaving
>>     > >> > us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year?
>>     > >> > Will it
>>     > >> > be
>>     > >> > any better than previous years?
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I think I speak for many non-European
>>     > >> > parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and
>>     > >> > evidence that
>>     > we
>>     > >> > wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years
>>     > >> > GA is as
>>     > >> > farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to
>>     > >> > crumble.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>PPI has no budget, and I as a board member didn't use any
>>     > >> > money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe)
>>     > >> > could be
>>     >
>>     > >> > given from PP DE.
>>     > >> >>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
>>     > >> > and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign
>>     > >> >>(managing FB ads from
>>     > >> > Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about
>>     > >> > price
>>     > per
>>     > >> > click / per 1000 views)
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting
>>     > >> > ideas on
>>     > >> this
>>     > >> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas
>>     > >> > are
>>     > good.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to
>>     > >> > Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to
>>     > >> > send board
>>     > >> > to
>>     > >> > PPI conference.
>>     > >> >>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying
>>     > >> > from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel
>>     > >> > and it was
>>     >
>>     > >> > cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Surely
>>     > >> > remote participation would be more important than ever, yet
>>     > >> > despite
>>     > >> > repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a
>>     > >> > response
>>     > >> > reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will
>>     > >> > be able
>>     > to
>>     > >> > participate and that remote delegates will be taken
seriously.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > What does the Board want the money for? How much does it
want?
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > We are reluctant
>>     > >> > to give money
>>     > >> > to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from,
>>     > >> > with no
>>     > >> > idea
>>     > >> > what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't
>>     > >> > tell is
>>     > >> > basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly
>>     > >> > attacking
>>     > >> > us
>>     > >> > for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to
Russia
>>     > doesn't
>>     > >> > exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will
be
>>     > >> > used
>>     > >> > wisely.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Mab wrote:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum
>>     > >> >>platform
>>     > for
>>     > >> > our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed
>>     > >> >>quite a few
>>     > >> > fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They
>>     > >> > are
>>     > >> > entirely
>>     > >> > text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that
>>     > >> >>people can attend
>>     > >> > regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any
>>     > >> > single round
>>     > >> > of
>>     > >> > voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate
>>     > >> >>that everyone can vote.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for
>>     > >> > PPI.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Regards
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Simon
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM,
>>     > >> > <mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se
>>     <mailto:mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se>>
>>     > >> > wrote:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum
>>     > >> > platform
>>     > for
>>     > >> our
>>     > >> > general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a
>>     > >> > few
>>     > >> > fetures
>>     > >> to
>>     > >> > make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are
entirely
>>     > >> > text
>>     > >> > based
>>     > >> > and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend
>>     > >> > regardless of
>>     > when
>>     > >> > they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting
>>     > >> > spans at
>>     > >> least
>>     > >> > 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which,
>>     > >> > given its
>>     > >> > delegate system, would have far less participants.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the
>>     > >> > technical
>>     > >> know-how
>>     > >> > of how to set up a web forum.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > All the best
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Mab
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > PP-SE
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > EU-branch
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where
>>     > >> > we verify
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer
>>     > >> > monitors
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think
>>     > >> > it costs
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a
>>     > >> > Mumble
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the
>>     > >> > gear it
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can
>>     > >> > provide a lot
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > of infrastructure out of their own gear.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on
>>     > >> > Google+, PP
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting
>>     > >> > once) and
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent
>>     > >> > privacy
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > implications but it has video and is free.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might
>>     > >> > as well
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour
of
>>     > hosting
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too.
>>     > >> > Just
>>     > start
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early
>>     > >> > to
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > attend. ;)
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Regards
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Simon
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <rata_0071 at hotmail.com
>>     <mailto:rata_0071 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > 2013/4/1 Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au
>>     <mailto:simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > We run remote participation for every congress in Australia
>>     > >> > and it
>>     > >> > costs
>>     > >> > virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how
>>     > >> > to do
>>     > it.
>>     > >> The
>>     > >> > idea it is expensive is false.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a
>>     > >> > virtual GA?
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if
you
>>     > >> > dont
>>     > miss
>>     > >> > video.
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well
>>     > >> > have a
>>     > >> parallel
>>     > >> > virtual GA
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > regards
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > aza
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ____________________________________________________
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>     > >> > [1]
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Links:
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ------
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > [1]
>>     > >> >
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ____________________________________________________
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ____________________________________________________
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > ____________________________________________________
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> >
>>     > >> > --
>>
>>     ____________________________________________________
>>     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>    
http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
>> International
>> - General Talk pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general


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