[pp.int.general] R: R: 'Liquid Democrazy': Pirate Party Sinks amid Chaos and Bickering

carlo von lynX lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org
Sun Feb 24 18:56:05 CET 2013

On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 05:49:23PM +0100, Carlito wrote:
> FYI, the thread is about Liquid Feedback and internal (e)democracy
> processes. 

no, it is about PP-DE.

in my view there are two major mistakes germany has been making:

#2: excessive transparency

everyone has to fight fights but you don't do it on twitter or
in press interviews.

#1: not enough liquid democracy

huge national assemblies to ratify five sections in the party
programme? that's utterly inefficient. germany's lqfb installations
are full of brilliant ideas and they just never come to daylight.
germany needs ability to ratify stuff differently and they just
might want to learn a bit from italy's experience.

> You wrote that PP IT didn't suspended any Pirate and here I am. 

since it has been proven that in politics ignoring the troll doesn't
work, it just makes the troll look better, here we go...

you got expelled for submitting 30 falsified certifications and
causing repeated damage to the pirate movement with damaging
interviews in the press. just the kind of thing that is bringing
PP-DE to its knees, only you presumably did it intentionally.

> You wrote you are against suspensions and you voted YES to mine. 
> These are both CRITICAL issues of a binding Liquid Feedback system and it

THAT is a point you are right about. it was wrong to have an expulsion
decided by a plebiscite, although the facts are such that if we had a
CoA decide about it, it would probably have come to a harsher verdict.
since then we finally introduced a CoA. thanks for bringing that
improvement about. feel free to ask the CoA for a reconsideration of
your case, though.

concerning the rest of your criticism.. well, we do have quite some
problems that we are working out, to make liquid democracy rule work -
but they are quite different from what you say they are.

in particular you have been proven before that it is an incorrect
assertion to say there are "always the same people deciding" - so
if you insist, you just prove you're acting with political intention.

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