[pp.int.general] R: R: R: 'Liquid Democrazy': Pirate Party Sinks amid Chaos and Bickering

Carlito carlito at subvertising.org
Sun Feb 24 20:38:25 CET 2013

Da: carlo von lynX
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 05:49:23PM +0100, Carlito wrote:
> > FYI, the thread is about Liquid Feedback and internal (e)democracy
> > processes.
> no, it is about PP-DE.

No, Zbigniew asked for Italian situation.

> > You wrote that PP IT didn't suspended any Pirate and here I am.
> since it has been proven that in politics ignoring the troll doesn't work,
it just
> makes the troll look better, here we go...
> you got expelled for submitting 30 falsified certifications and causing
> repeated damage to the pirate movement with damaging interviews in the
> press. just the kind of thing that is bringing PP-DE to its knees, only
> presumably did it intentionally.

You can't prove it.
This is defamation. 
Bring some evidence of this or you are just a criminal.  

> > You wrote you are against suspensions and you voted YES to mine.
> > These are both CRITICAL issues of a binding Liquid Feedback system and
> > it
> THAT is a point you are right about. it was wrong to have an expulsion
> decided by a plebiscite, 

You call "plebiscite" a decision made with 10 votes.
That's the problem of Liquid Feedback as a binding permanent assembly.
That's all.

> although the facts are such that if we had a CoA
> decide about it, it would probably have come to a harsher verdict.
> since then we finally introduced a CoA. thanks for bringing that
> about. feel free to ask the CoA for a reconsideration of your case,
> concerning the rest of your criticism.. well, we do have quite some
> that we are working out, to make liquid democracy rule work - but they are
> quite different from what you say they are.
> in particular you have been proven before that it is an incorrect
assertion to
> say there are "always the same people deciding" - so if you insist, you
> prove you're acting with political intention.

I'm here just to tell other Pirates that the Italian system doesn't work.

The PP IT disappeared from the political scene thanks to the Permanent
Assembly based on Liquid Feedback.
And you are the first promoter of this.

That's my point of view and you can just bring yours.
Welcome in the fantastic world of a democratic mailing list where everybody
can express a concept.


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