[pp.int.general] Transparency in the party

[thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl]

Hey PP-IT, while you were busy proclaiming that you are in fact the one 
and only pirate party of Italy, Grillo got 25% of the vote on a platform 
incorporating the pirate platform. Maybe this should be a wake up call. 
Maybe you should spend some time actually being the pirate party of 
Italy - something tells me that part of that 25% could well have gone 
your way should you have taken less credit for being the pirate party of 
Italy and more time living up to your name. Just a thought. Of course, 
your best bet is to ignore this message as pointless trolling and carry 
on as you have before, agreeing with one another in your nice little 
comfortable circle where everyone knows each other. And where you can, 
without irony, propose that mumble might be a good way to discuss things 
transparently cause everyone who gives a fuck can be online and listen 
to people who love to hear themselves speak, or listen back to a 
delightful recording to do as much.

Say PPI, why don't we ditch PP-IT and jump onboard the Grillo bandwagon 
on the Italian front? Just to set PP-IT a bar to jump over before we 
want to hear them talk again. Sounds too good to be adopted as stance by 
ppi, sadly.

carlo von lynX schreef op 27.02.2013 13:01:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:56:52AM +0100, Dario wrote:
>> It is impossible to keep a clean debate on Twitter. Too much short 
>> to do
>> meaningful statements, too much lack of structure to follow properly 
>> a
>> conversation. The opposite is true, mailing lists then to long 
>> debates,
>> with too much long texts, etc. We need to find a middle ground.
>
> +1 ___ i'm in favour of a lqfb + mumble approach. pin down the 
> concrete
> positions and facts in liquid, then have a virtual beer conversation
> by teleconference to avoid the debate from getting misunderstood,
> avoid paranoia and hatred to rise.
>
>> Also, I don't believe almost everyone on PP-DE uses Twitter and 
>> discuss
>> everything there. I guess the most important (and delicate) issues 
>> are
>> dealt in mailing lists, etherpads or even wiki's discussions.
>
> you're right. it's the most extrovert ones, be it in-crowd and/or 
> trolls,
> that populate twitter. they're not representative of the party but 
> they
> are seen the most both by media and by the board which is put unter
> terrible pressure by every painful remark that goes about retweeted.
>
> it's an impossibility in theory of democracy for a representative, be 
> it
> the board or a parlamentarian, to do it *right* for everyone. that's 
> why
> we turned to liquid democracy in the first place, so that the party 
> can
> develop coherent positions and the board has clear guidelines to 
> follow.
>
> the board should cut down on listening to single party members and 
> teach
> them to express their will by liquid democracy. many trolls are 
> totally
> unaware that their positions are far away from common ground - a 
> liquid
> reality check tells them so, indicating them to stop making all that
> noise, whereas good points make it through the procedure and get to 
> the
> people who are currently executing the will.
>
> IMHO introducing https://lqfb.piratenpartei.de/lf/area/show/16.html 
> was
> the best idea they had in a long time. they should make all 
> non-urgent
> communication/decision-making pass this liquid democratic channel, 
> and
> by teaching all pirates to participate in it, it also becomes more 
> and
> more representative.
>
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