[pp.int.general] Bullshit EU consultation

[Andrew Norton]

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On 1/3/2013 10:31 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
>     If you respond, you've at least got some input.
> 
> If you respond, then you've (1) got some input and (2) endorsed the
> ideas in the questions.

If you bothered to read my response (I suggest the unredacted one I
published in March, not the redacted one they put out in July, you'll
see that at NO point did I endorse their ideas in the questions at all.

And if you don't respond, you've given a de-facto endorsement of their
ideas in the consultation, since you've not disagreed with them at all.

> 
> (2) is bad.  (1) is good, but how much good?  That depends on details
> such as whether the people doing the survey want to pay attention to
> you.  In this case, they don't.
> 
> Your argument seems to invoke the unstated premise that (1) is always
> bigger than (2).  That is clearly erroneous.

Your argument seems to assume that 2 exists at all. Clearly you have
*never* read one of my consultation responses. _You_ are clearly erroneous.

> 
>     When I did one for the UK IPO last March, I disagreed with most of their
>     assertions, to the point they actually delayed releasing the responses
>     for a few weeks, while they 'sanitized' things. 
> 
> This is a benefit -- but not a benefit of "getting input".  From your
> story, it is clear their conclusions disregarded your input.  Rather,
> the benefit consisted of catching them in wrongdoing.  That sounds
> like a useful victory, but one can't expect that to happen every time,
> and it doesn't require lots of people to respond.

It does. And the more you reply negatively, the harder it is to justify
things. Oh, they have certainly been made aware of my input, and in fact
my response has been the most read of them all to this point, so I htink
I've gotten my point across quite well. I've also caught them out on
their activities.

Now, had I taken your idea, would their response be any different? No.
Would we have found out any of this? No. So your

> 
> To have a chance of catching them in a wrong, while minimizing the
> harm (2), responses should come from people or organizations of no
> great prestige, so that their endorsement of the premises of the
> survey will not be of any value to the people conducting it.
> 
>     Churlishness gets nothing done, and just becomes more noise, and one
>     easier to discredit because of it's content.
> 
> Criticizing the hidden assumptions of the adversary is not churlish,
> it is political debate.
> 

Actually, saying 'I don't like it, let's do nothing' isn't political
debate, it's being childish, or lazy - take your pick.

However, your idea:
"I think this needs to be denounced as brainwashing.  Is anyone interested?"

Is basically saying 'lets stick a foil hat on our heads and show the
Teaparty how to REALLY be a crazy fuck no-one should take seriously.
It's as much political debate as the statements from Orly Taitz, Donald
Trump, and Joe Arpaio about Obama's birth certificate are. It's the
Aikin/Palin stratagem and it DOES NOT WORK.

There are ways to deal with the topics, to answer without endorsement.
Give it a try sometime, you might find it a useful exercise. And I
suggest you do it soon, because I know (having talked to others) that
I'm not the only one who sees an email from you and is more inclined to
slide it to spam than read it. Right now, you're on a par, for me, with
the Italians (However, on  the plus side, the last few emails from you
haven't been any of the standard form emails you usually send to the
list like an email bot - "don't call it IP", "It's not linux, it's
GNU/linux" etc. - so that's SOME progress. Congrats!!)

Andrew



- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.co.uk
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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