[pp.int.general] What is democracy in a party

Sat Jan 5 00:59:36 CET 2013

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On 1/4/2013 5:26 PM, Antonio Garcia wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> The 2012 PPI GA was an almost complete failure on many aspects, and neither the Board nor the Court of Arbitration have shown much aptitude for duly and diligently performing their tasks.

In case you were not aware, there is NO CoA - they ALL resigned a few months
ago.

> 
> The consequences are something we will probably have to suffer for quite some time, impacting on our ability to internationally organize and be of mutual assistance to each other.

The consequences are something you suffer only if you refuse to do
something.

> 
> But that being said... I see no way to actually label a non-EU General Assembly of PPI as responsible behaviour. It would force way too many people to incur in expensive travel costs. Something more sensible might be to establish a solidarity mechanism whereby all delegates have equal costs and the fee is established in such a way that those closer to the premises pay a surplus that can be used to subsidize the costs of those that have no alternative than to come from further away.
> 

So forcing the same groups to consistently either pay more, or have the
most limited participation is the better idea? I think a large part of
the problem is that it keeps being the same people time after time, and
it's the same people, because the meetings are always the same, in
Europe. It's PPI, not PP-EU. If it's expensive, don't go, try the remote
delegate option, see how well that works for you. Here's a hint from
past times - it doesn't. The people locally don't want to hear from
people they feel are cheap and 'won't travel'. You're second class
before you even start, because you're NOT THERE.

> Optimization would then be to try to keep total cost of travel and lodging as low as possible.
> 
For who? the same people? Here's the point. Madness is doing the same
things over and over and expecting a different result. We keep having
meetings in Europe, getting europe-centric boards, who focus on Europe
and ignore the rest, and then when it comes time for the next, it's back
to Europe, because 'thats where most people are'. Well when you spend
your time focusing on the European parties, then yeah, non-european
parties aren't going to grow. Surprising that.

> At some point organizing the PPI GA out of Europe could become efficient cost-wise, or interested parties could subsidize the difference between the cost-efficient solution and their preferred one... putting the money where their mouth is.
> 
> Organizing a PPI GA out of Europe has not only to do with finding a suitable location... it has much more to do with people finding the funds to travel to wherever it is to be held.
> 
There's plenty of locations. It's just a will to do it.

But your fixation on price is telling of one thing. You don't consider
non-EU pirates to be as important. Because if you did, you'd be worried
about them ALWAYS having to pay more, OR have to suffer remote
delegation. So the question the PPI has to ask is, are non-EU members
second class? If not, why are they treated as such?

> It can not be that deciders become only those that have money to travel around at will, considering the increased amount of international meetings being arranged lately. Meetings with little in the line of practical results, and very bad structure and timing, to add insult to injury, making thm less and less interesting for intelligent people to attend.
> 

That describes every PPI meeting for the last 3 years (Belgium onwards)
You think that's a good trend to continue?

And as a closing note, before they claim 'noone else put in a bid',
that's just lazyness on their behalf. One of the jobs of the board is to
organise the meeting. Some have managed to pass off that job onto
volunteers, to get a pirate group to take on the work in the form of a
'bid'. However, it's not the ONLY way the PPI GA location can be
decided, and the meeting arranged. It's just the way the board decides
to do it, because it's the least work for them. The end result is,
they're doing the minimum work possible, and passing off responsibility
to others. I'm sick of it. Others are too. It's time they got off their
self-promoting arses and did the job they campaigned on doing. But then
they can't do anything competently.
"The minutes of the meeting will be published before the next meeting
and not later than two weeks after the meeting."
(http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board/Rules_of_Procedure 6.1)
The minutes for December 18 are not up yet, in contravention of that
(It's not only been more than 2 weeks, but they had a meeting on the 3rd
(which isn't listed even)

Of course, expect the rules to change so they are ok (because section 8
says they can change the rules any time they want and make it
immediately applicable - talk about self-serving!)

Maybe you're ok with this bunch of incompetent self-promoting fools but
I'm not. I'm sorry if having a desire that the board do the job they're
supposed to do, rather than busy swanning around pretending they're
people with power.
Just look at the last meeting with minutes, from a month ago -
http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board_Minutes_2012-12-04#3.1_-_Short_report_of_the_board_members
shows lots of going to conferences and talking to media. Look further
down. See a lack of actually getting IMPORTANT stuff done. Like the
financial stuff from the last GA, or 'transfer of the HQ' whatever that
means. This is stuff from APRIL not done, because it's not as important
as traveling to a statutes meeting in Manchester....

For those that forgot, there's a huge thing in the Pirate Ethos about
'transparency'. With that goes accountability. The PPI has no
accountability. it's board doesn't do what it's supposed to, focuses on
stuff that isn't important and screws over half the membership so that
those at the top have a better chance of staying on top.

So it's time the board decides. Do they show some honesty, admit they've
screwed up, and step down, so some competent people can get stuff done.
OR
Are they going to continue doing a Julia Schramm - publicly proclaiming
the pirate philosophy, while at the same time ignoring it in action and
deed for their own benefit.

Those in the CoA already threw themselves into the firing line,
resigning to save you from a lawsuit over your improper actions. There's
no-one left for you to sacrifice.

And for the journalists on the list, because I do believe in the pirate
philosophies of transparency and accountability, feel free to contact me
to find out the story of why the CoA resigned en-masse months ago, and
get my insight onto why the board refuses to hold elections to refill it
(hint, the court is the only body that can investigate the board without
an extensive leadtime to organise an extraordinary GA)

Andrew

> 
> Antonio.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 16:15:25 -0500
>> From: ktetch at gmail.com
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] What is democracy in a party
>>
> On 1/4/2013 3:16 PM, Nicolás Reynolds wrote:
>>>> Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Carlito <carlito at subvertising.org> wrote:
>>>>>> So, if the majority expulses members and stop new subscribers you will always have the same "controllers" ad vitam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO this seems not being a "democratic organization" (the first rule should be alternance of government)
>>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion the alternance of government is only an indicator of
>>>>> democracy - if there is no government (i.e. no board in this case) you
>>>>> can still have a democracy.
>>>>
>>>> i recommend the book "Freedom Is an Endless Meeting" from francesca
>>>> polletta for other experiences :)
> 
> Was it based on the 2012 PPI GA?
> 
> I mean, we're still waiting for the statutes bit of day 2 (the whole
> 'afternoon' of the agenda to be done, and the second half of what was
> done (voting in the COA) is moot as well since they all resigned months ago.
> 
> (Although that's not really freedom, more general incompetence)
> 
> Next we'll find out that the PPI Board have failed to arrange a non-EU
> location for the next PPI GA (and will claim it's nothing to do with
> them not organizing one, just that no-one outside the EU will do their
> job for them and organize it)
> 
> 
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> ____________________________________________________
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> 

- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.co.uk
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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