[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

HerNenya hernenya at gmail.com
Fri Jul 12 20:10:54 CEST 2013

+1 Jack. I completely agree with you about this.

In Galicia we are studying closely this topic. Some of us are convinced 
that could provide benefits to society. Others of us are still not quite 
sure to defend Basic Income because of the many reasons that are exposed 
here and many more that could be or not be seen in this thread.

I think politics and economics are subjects that go together and you 
cannot separate. Any point of the 'true core pirate ideology' has its 
economics impact although anyone like it or not to admit it.

If we are political parties, we should be able to talk about economics 
and include this item in our programs. *This is my personal point of 
view, not of the pirate party that I belong nor the spanish confederation.*

To unify economic principles at this level (internationaly) is really 
complicated since the reality of the countries, estates, etc are quite 
different. For example, the level of corruption of southern Europe 
demands certain decisions to be taken that in some other estates cannot 
understand, share, etc.

Saúde! P-)

Isabel Fernandez

El 12/07/13 19:16, Jack Allnutt escribió:
> Hash: SHA1
> On 12/07/2013 18:04, Cal. wrote:
>> On 12 July 2013 18:58, Jack Allnutt <j.allnutt at pirateparty.org.uk> wrote:
>>> If we're talking about a minimum wage, it's not that simple. Wage
>>> slavery is a real problem. Plus there's then the problem of it being
>>> more economical to *not* work, and collect unemployment benefits etc.
>>> If we're talking about having a job *in addition to* receiving a basic
>>> income, then I think your right. The incentive is that you get extra
>>> money for working whatever the wage is.
>> yep. that's what basic income is.
> Indeed, I just wanted to clarify as the issue got confused slightly
> further up the chain :)
>>> I guess the typical rebuttal is that the price of labour is no longer
>>> distorted by a minimum wage and that labour will be priced according to
>>> supply and demand on the labour market just like any other good or
> service.
>>> One of the ideas behind a basic income is that it would *intentionally*
>>> reduce the supply of labour in to the market. It frees people up to
>>> invest their time and energy into causes that don't (immediately) return
>>> a profit. Charities and other voluntary projects, politics, caring for
>>> relatives or friends, education, entrepreneurship etc.
>> that could be somewhat difficult, relating to the effective amount of
>> that basic income.
> It is a difficult problem to be solved. One can't set the rate too high
> (no incentive to work) or too low (unable to survive) but I think that,
> in principle, it's a problem that *can* be solved.
>> leftists don't like unemployed people.
> That's a very broad statement.
> I consider myself economically left-leaning and under the *current*
> economic system, unemployment *is* bad. But under a UBI system, the
> whole concept of unemployment changes.
> - -- Jack
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