[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

[John Nilsson]

Hi,

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but have been arguing for an UBI as part
of a pirate ideology inside the Swedish pp before. I find it interesting
that it is once again being debated. Just the other day my attention was
directed to this blog post on the subject:
http://simulacrum.cc/2013/07/10/three-trends-that-push-us-towards-an-unconditional-basic-income/

In any case, I was curious about how the debate has played out inside the
various pirate parties? Last time I participated in the debate there was a
"policy" to not take a stance in economic affairs. Which to me wasn't a
problem seeing how UBI is basically an ethical issue in my mind, and the
economics of it mostly an implementation detail.

Thus my take on the three bullets provided (keeping in mind that I'm
Swedish, not Swiss, so have limited insight in the cultural issues
involved) is full agreement on point number 1, not agreeing at all at point
number 2, and thinking that point number 3 could very well be left to the
implementers to decide.

The reason I'm not agreeing with point number 2 is that I believe the
ethical principle behind UBI comes from defending the commons (the core of
pirate ideology in my mind), not from taking a stance in welfare policies
or how distribution of wealth as such.

Previously in this thread UBI was described as somewhat leftish, or some
one put it "socialist/communist". Grounded in geolibertarianism or
georgism, which I think is the correct basis for a pirate take on the
issue, it could actually be seen as a very rightish thing.

My very short take on the issue is that UBI should be seen as compensation
for transferring rights from the commons to the private. The UBI part being
that in theory it should be paid to all commoners, but in practice a state
may choose to tax the UBI so that only a fraction actually paid out.

Henry George and geo-libertarians focus on land, and land value rent, but
I'm not sure it has to end there. In my mind any transfer from the commons
to the private (i.e. copyright, patents, emission quotas and so forth) if
to be viewed as ethical at all needs to be compensated in a similar way.

BR,
John


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Charly Pache <charly.pache at gmail.com>wrote:

> Here the swiss example on what will be added to the constitution if the
> citizen approve the basic income votation, it's quite simple, then the
> parliament will have to write the corresponding laws (the whole transition
> process will take many years):
> The Constitution is amended as follows:
>
> Art. 110a (new) unconditional basic income
>
>      1. The Confederation shall ensure the establishment of an unconditional
> basic income.
>
>      2. The basic income should allow all people to lead a dignified life and
> to participate in public life.
>
>      3. The law regulates such funding and the amount of basic income.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Daniel Riaño <danielrr2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Which Pirate parties included the idea of a "basic income" in the core of
>> its ideology and/or their electoral program? And which specific model of
>> "basic income" was that?
>>
>> To be able to talk about this subject meaningfully I think we should
>> describe which model of basic income each has in mind.
>>
>> Of course we can speak in pure philosophical terms without the need to
>> refer to any specific model, but then we should start by defining the
>> anthropological basis of "basic income".
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/16 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Most of the voices here were in favour of Basic Income.  The general
>>> public is probably much more reserved about it.
>>>
>>> We are a group selected for our attitude towards copyright, patents
>>> and privacy reforms - now we see that we share more than that.  Why is
>>> that?  What is the thing that links these subjects?
>>>
>>> Z.
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> societal activist @ utilopia.com, pirate party switzerland, ch-open.ch,
> swiss entrepreneurship association and bien-ch.ch
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
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