[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?
charly.pache at gmail.com
Wed Jul 17 16:53:34 CEST 2013
Schwaab is a socialist member of parliament in Switzerland. In my opinion
he is not yet aware of the dynamic that is going on for decades: more
automatisation, robotisation, and we need each year less human work to
produce the necessary goods for our societies, it's what we call progress.
There is no more a job for every working capable human (about 40% of the
population works nowadays, and pays for the 100%, children, elders, it
seems that after we introduce the UBI, 8% will stop working, probably a lot
of working poors).
The problem is that in the current system humans need a payed job to live.
The first solution would have been to reduce progressivly everyones'
workhours without being paid less (as the productivity increased thanks to
new technologies). But it didn't happened this way. The workers work mostly
100% and the others have no more job.
The technological progress makes the owners of the production facilities
earn more and more thanks to an increased productivity. There are less jobs
but not less benefits. That shifts the overall money towards the richest in
the society. The UBI is a solution to share this money among all the
participants in the society, it's like everyone would become a SHAREHOLDER
of the society, that's why we have to take the missing money where it is,
by the super rich companies and people.
About the financing, Richard Stallman is right. I would add as a small
sarcastic footnote for Anouk: Earth is a planet that has the funds to do
In our computations, it's true that for our country we need about 200
billions swiss francs. About 110 billions of this amount will be transfered
from salaries charges as it is today, 60 billions exists already as money
for the socialcare, it means we would miss about 30 billions BUT with the
UBI we will need less money for the overall administration of the state and
examples (see Dauphin experience, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome)
show that a society with UBI spends less money for healthcare. The missing
money, as said before, will have to be taken where it is: taxing the very
rich companies and people. This is the price to pay to live in a more equal
society. I see no problem there as these companies and people get very rich
thanks to the efforts of the whole society.
Just one more remark, someone said that 'basic income would only cover half
to little more than half of their cost of living', that's not true, the
basic income will cover the full but minimal cost of living (food, roof,
And a big step forward will be that we will finally get rid of the working
poors, who struggle nowadays for very little wages, they won't need to go
into slavery to get the necessary money to live.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>wrote:
> Only resorting to protectionism if not done by all countries at the same
> time, evicting radically from their marketplace any company that does not
> I dare suggest the mere impossibility of such a scheme is what finally
> brought down the Berlin wall.
> It takes a far more conscious civic movement to impose this kind of
> protectionism as a de facto reality rather than a political imposition.
> When dodging taxes translates automatically into brutally losing sales to
> aware citizens.
> Like when Microsoft collaborating with the NSA translates automagically
> into sufficient people switching over to Linux on their existing machines,
> and refusing to buy any new computer with Windows preinstalled.
> > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:46:08 -0400
> > From: rms at gnu.org
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the
> pirate ideology?
> > [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
> > [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
> > [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.
> > Small sarcastic footnote, Switserland is a country that has the funds to
> > do this.
> > Any developed country can have the funds for a basic income
> > (or whatever else is needed) if it stops businesses and the rich
> > from tax-dodging.
> > --
> > Dr Richard Stallman
> > President, Free Software Foundation
> > 51 Franklin St
> > Boston MA 02110
> > USA
> > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org
> > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
> > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
societal activist @ utilopia.com, pirate party switzerland, ch-open.ch,
swiss entrepreneurship association and bien-ch.ch
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