[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

Martin Stolze pirate.martin at stolze.cc
Thu Jul 18 10:27:09 CEST 2013

I agree with your sentiment that there should be some very profound ethical
foundation but I must admit that I can’t fully comprehend what that could
I understand the economics and can see fallacies in that argumentation,
particularly the common mistake of complete ignorance of the time value of

But as for the ethical debate I can only contribute simple logic and
educated guessing which is why I was hoping you would come up with some
"simple ethical foundations" :D.

The complexity become obvious if you just scratch on the surface:

You say: *“we shouldn't call it taxation as that implies that there is a
right to destroy our environment in the first place.”*

We have the ability to shape our environment and so we do. Full stop. That
logic implies in fact a right to destroy (change). Here we maneuver into
the question as to how we value ourselves.

If we underline the logic of the Basic Income as “I am worthwhile because I
exist, I am I, and I am alive” then our very existence necessitates and
justifies the destruction of the environment. The only thing we could argue
about is the degree. Who decides? From here on we would have to "measure"
... and I don’t even wanna get started with that. How would a tax/transfer
do justice?

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:17 AM, John Nilsson <john at milsson.nu> wrote:

> Den 17 jul 2013 16:35 skrev "Martin Stolze" <pirate.martin at stolze.cc>:
> > @John
> >
> > "Henry George and geo-libertarians focus on land, and land value rent,
> but I'm not sure it has to end there. In my mind any transfer from the
> commons to the private (i.e. copyright, patents, emission quotas and so
> forth) if to be viewed as ethical at all needs to be compensated in a
> similar way."
> >
> > Thanks, really interesting point elevating it all on a different level.
> More details on this?
> Hmm. Not sure. I think is is the first time I've been able to articulate
> it so clearly to my self. Which could be indicative of being more of a
> sound bite than actual insight ;)
> Maybe one could keep it in mind while reading Benklers Wealth of Networks
> for some new insights?
> BR
> John
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