[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?
Travis McCrea
me at travismccrea.com
Fri Jun 7 18:30:12 CEST 2013
Johan,
This is a message that I keep trying to spread on this mailing list. I am glad someone else understands the importance of unity.
Johan Karlsson wrote:
> Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same
> team here, fighting for the same goal.
>
> Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to
> feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is
> he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or
> perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed.
> But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get
> to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement.
> When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the
> need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out
> of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing
> for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.
>
> I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like
> this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The
> problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards
> different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at
> least two or three other people that hate him or her.
> I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to
> please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to
> someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a
> very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails
> being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are
> hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as
> important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or
> perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon
> wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.
>
> Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really
> important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging
> you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop
> this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of
> the movement depends on it.
>
> Kind Regards
> Johan Karlsson
> Member of the Swedish Pirate party
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus
> <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl <mailto:thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant
> discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad!
> These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors.
> Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge
> and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people
> simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd
> be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and
> transparant fashion.
>
> Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:
>
> Patric.
>
> since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I
> refrain from answering.
> Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a
> public
> mailing list.
> YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.
>
>
> sincerely yours,
>
> Gregory Engels
> Co-Chairman
> Pirate Parties International
>
> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
> skype:gregory.engels
> jabber:dichter at jabber.__piratenpartei.de
> <mailto:jabber%3Adichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de>
> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
>
>
>
>
> On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk
> <patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Please stop this.
> Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not
> seeing the reality how it is.
>
>
> I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April
> also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,
> makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are
> members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board
> are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*
> problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.
>
>
>
> Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you
> should be able
> to interpret the results, instead of making false
> accusations based on
> misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some
> problem with the
> website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the
> output
> pointing to google. This is however entirely
> irrelevant for the Website.
>
>
> Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've
> pointed
> out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the
> point, as
> the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts
> on pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net>, as
> you could've deduced from the fact
> that I specifically ran dig for MX records.
>
>
>
> You are keeping ranting around, without considering
> the possibility
> that you might be wrong.
>
>
> Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,
> this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad
> hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm
> out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no
> strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as
> apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be
> in, but that's a different matter.)
>
> What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending
> an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think
> journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy
> for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*
> why I'm sending this e-mail thread.
>
>
>
> Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net
> <http://pp-international.net> mx" which gives
> you most everything about the MAIL routing to the
> op-international.net <http://op-international.net>
> domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to
> other subdomains
> or the WEB lookup.
>
>
> As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned
> that this issue is specifically related to the
> pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net> domain.
> Not lists.$ or
> lists.pirateweb.org <http://lists.pirateweb.org>. You're
> sending me an argument I've made
> myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?
>
>
>
> If you have something important to say, that should
> stay private, use
> some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only
> have a false
> impression of security.
>
>
> Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make
> their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just
> assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent
> encryption.
>
>
>
> that is all said. everything else is just mindless
> ranting and fighting.
> there is no need for this. I am not against you, or
> anybody inside the
> pirate movement, and we should treat each other with
> the due respect,
> as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely
> voluntarily.
>
>
> Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.
> Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll
> lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're
> 'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive
> aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.
>
>
>
> Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration
> out from google,
> but then, we would miss them for other projects, and
> in the end,
> we would only switch from something that is working
> flawlessly to something
> else, without improving anything or solving any problem.
>
>
> According to
> <https://github.com/Pirate-__Parties-International
> <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>>
> there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough
> experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not
> a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is
> all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever
> currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost
> again?
>
> Also, what other projects?
>
> --
> Patrick Godschalk
> patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>
> GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)
> This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.
>
>
>
>
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