[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?

Fri Jun 7 18:04:09 CEST 2013

Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same team
here, fighting for the same goal.

Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to feel
targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is he or she
will either be very sad after just a single email. Or perhaps the recipient
of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed. But after a while all those
tiny bits of annoyance will start to get to you and you wont find it fun to
continue working for the movement. When that happens you either try to
struggle on, but will feel the need to yell at others just to stay sane, or
you will simply drop out of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually
then be the best thing for the movement as a whole as you at least stop
spreading that bad mode.

I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like this
there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The problem is
that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards different people. I
actually think that everyone on this list have at least two or three other
people that hate him or her.
I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to
please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to
someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a very
important issue, such as for example this one with the emails being scanned
by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are hundreds, perhaps
even thousands of issues that is just about as important as this one. And
if we shall make someone feel bad or perhaps even leaving the movement for
every single issue there soon wont be many pirates left to fix the issues
at hand.

Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really
important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging you
to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop this
mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of the movement
depends on it.

Kind Regards
Johan Karlsson
Member of the Swedish Pirate party

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus
<thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>wrote:

> Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant discussion
> thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad! These things ought to be
> resolved in private, behind closed doors. Else some blatant incompetence
> might be become public knowledge and we wouldn't want that now would we?
> You see, some people simply lack the merits to counterbalance their
> failings, and it'd be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open
> and transparant fashion.
>
> Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:
>
>  Patric.
>>
>> since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I
>> refrain from answering.
>> Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a public
>> mailing list.
>> YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.
>>
>>
>> sincerely yours,
>>
>> Gregory Engels
>> Co-Chairman
>> Pirate Parties International
>>
>> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
>> skype:gregory.engels
>> jabber:dichter at jabber.**piratenpartei.de<jabber%3Adichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de>
>> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk
>> <patrick.godschalk@**piratenpartij.nl<patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Patrick,
>>>>
>>>> Please stop this.
>>>> Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not seeing the reality how
>>>> it is.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April
>>> also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,
>>> makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are
>>> members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board
>>> are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*
>>> problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you should be able
>>>> to interpret the results, instead of making false accusations based on
>>>> misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some problem with the
>>>> website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the output
>>>> pointing to google. This is however entirely irrelevant for the Website.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've pointed
>>> out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the point, as
>>> the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts
>>> on pp-international.net, as you could've deduced from the fact
>>> that I specifically ran dig for MX records.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  You are keeping ranting around, without considering the possibility
>>>> that you might be wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,
>>> this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad
>>> hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm
>>> out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no
>>> strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as
>>> apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be
>>> in, but that's a different matter.)
>>>
>>> What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending
>>> an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think
>>> journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy
>>> for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*
>>> why I'm sending this e-mail thread.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net mx" which gives
>>>> you most everything about the MAIL routing to the op-international.net
>>>> domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to other subdomains
>>>> or the WEB lookup.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned
>>> that this issue is specifically related to the
>>> pp-international.net domain. Not lists.$ or
>>> lists.pirateweb.org. You're sending me an argument I've made
>>> myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  If you have something important to say, that should stay private, use
>>>> some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only have a false
>>>> impression of security.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make
>>> their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just
>>> assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent
>>> encryption.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  that is all said. everything else is just mindless ranting and fighting.
>>>> there is no need for this. I am not against you, or anybody inside the
>>>> pirate movement, and we should treat each other with the due respect,
>>>> as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely voluntarily.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.
>>> Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll
>>> lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're
>>> 'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive
>>> aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration out from google,
>>>> but then, we would miss them for other projects, and in the end,
>>>> we would only switch from something that is working flawlessly to
>>>> something
>>>> else, without improving anything or solving any problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> According to <https://github.com/Pirate-**Parties-International<https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>
>>> >
>>> there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough
>>> experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not
>>> a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is
>>> all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever
>>> currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost
>>> again?
>>>
>>> Also, what other projects?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Patrick Godschalk
>>> patrick.godschalk@**piratenpartij.nl<patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>
>>> GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)
>>> This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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