[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?
Zbigniew Łukasiak
zzbbyy at gmail.com
Fri Jun 7 18:48:42 CEST 2013
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Travis McCrea <me at travismccrea.com> wrote:
> Johan,
> This is a message that I keep trying to spread on this mailing list. I am glad someone else understands the importance of unity.
Actually I don't think we need unity - we need to accept that we are
all different and have different ideas and we don't need to agree with
each other on everything. I believe that it is the thinking that we
need to be a unity that generates all the heat here - because it makes
people feel that a differnce is unacceptable.
Z.
>
> Johan Karlsson wrote:
>> Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same
>> team here, fighting for the same goal.
>>
>> Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to
>> feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is
>> he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or
>> perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed.
>> But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get
>> to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement.
>> When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the
>> need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out
>> of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing
>> for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.
>>
>> I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like
>> this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The
>> problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards
>> different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at
>> least two or three other people that hate him or her.
>> I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to
>> please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to
>> someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a
>> very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails
>> being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are
>> hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as
>> important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or
>> perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon
>> wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.
>>
>> Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really
>> important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging
>> you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop
>> this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of
>> the movement depends on it.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Johan Karlsson
>> Member of the Swedish Pirate party
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus
>> <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl <mailto:thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant
>> discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad!
>> These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors.
>> Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge
>> and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people
>> simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd
>> be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and
>> transparant fashion.
>>
>> Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:
>>
>> Patric.
>>
>> since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I
>> refrain from answering.
>> Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a
>> public
>> mailing list.
>> YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.
>>
>>
>> sincerely yours,
>>
>> Gregory Engels
>> Co-Chairman
>> Pirate Parties International
>>
>> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
>> skype:gregory.engels
>> jabber:dichter at jabber.__piratenpartei.de
>> <mailto:jabber%3Adichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de>
>> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk
>> <patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
>> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Please stop this.
>> Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not
>> seeing the reality how it is.
>>
>>
>> I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April
>> also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,
>> makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are
>> members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board
>> are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*
>> problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you
>> should be able
>> to interpret the results, instead of making false
>> accusations based on
>> misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some
>> problem with the
>> website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the
>> output
>> pointing to google. This is however entirely
>> irrelevant for the Website.
>>
>>
>> Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've
>> pointed
>> out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the
>> point, as
>> the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts
>> on pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net>, as
>> you could've deduced from the fact
>> that I specifically ran dig for MX records.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are keeping ranting around, without considering
>> the possibility
>> that you might be wrong.
>>
>>
>> Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,
>> this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad
>> hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm
>> out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no
>> strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as
>> apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be
>> in, but that's a different matter.)
>>
>> What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending
>> an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think
>> journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy
>> for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*
>> why I'm sending this e-mail thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net
>> <http://pp-international.net> mx" which gives
>> you most everything about the MAIL routing to the
>> op-international.net <http://op-international.net>
>> domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to
>> other subdomains
>> or the WEB lookup.
>>
>>
>> As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned
>> that this issue is specifically related to the
>> pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net> domain.
>> Not lists.$ or
>> lists.pirateweb.org <http://lists.pirateweb.org>. You're
>> sending me an argument I've made
>> myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have something important to say, that should
>> stay private, use
>> some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only
>> have a false
>> impression of security.
>>
>>
>> Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make
>> their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just
>> assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent
>> encryption.
>>
>>
>>
>> that is all said. everything else is just mindless
>> ranting and fighting.
>> there is no need for this. I am not against you, or
>> anybody inside the
>> pirate movement, and we should treat each other with
>> the due respect,
>> as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely
>> voluntarily.
>>
>>
>> Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.
>> Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll
>> lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're
>> 'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive
>> aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration
>> out from google,
>> but then, we would miss them for other projects, and
>> in the end,
>> we would only switch from something that is working
>> flawlessly to something
>> else, without improving anything or solving any problem.
>>
>>
>> According to
>> <https://github.com/Pirate-__Parties-International
>> <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>>
>> there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough
>> experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not
>> a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is
>> all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever
>> currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost
>> again?
>>
>> Also, what other projects?
>>
>> --
>> Patrick Godschalk
>> patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
>> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>
>> GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)
>> This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
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> ____________________________________________________
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> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
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