[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?

Zbigniew Łukasiak zzbbyy at gmail.com
Fri Jun 7 18:48:42 CEST 2013


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Travis McCrea <me at travismccrea.com> wrote:
> Johan,
> This is a message that I keep trying to spread on this mailing list. I am glad someone else understands the importance of unity.

Actually I don't think we need unity - we need to accept that we are
all different and have different ideas and we don't need to agree with
each other on everything.  I believe that it is the thinking that we
need to be a unity that generates all the heat here - because it makes
people feel that a differnce is unacceptable.

Z.


>
> Johan Karlsson wrote:
>> Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same
>> team here, fighting for the same goal.
>>
>> Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to
>> feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is
>> he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or
>> perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed.
>> But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get
>> to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement.
>> When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the
>> need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out
>> of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing
>> for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.
>>
>> I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like
>> this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The
>> problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards
>> different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at
>> least two or three other people that hate him or her.
>> I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to
>> please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to
>> someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a
>> very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails
>> being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are
>> hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as
>> important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or
>> perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon
>> wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.
>>
>> Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really
>> important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging
>> you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop
>> this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of
>> the movement depends on it.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Johan Karlsson
>> Member of the Swedish Pirate party
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus
>> <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl <mailto:thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant
>>     discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad!
>>     These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors.
>>     Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge
>>     and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people
>>     simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd
>>     be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and
>>     transparant fashion.
>>
>>     Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:
>>
>>         Patric.
>>
>>         since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I
>>         refrain from answering.
>>         Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a
>>         public
>>         mailing list.
>>         YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.
>>
>>
>>         sincerely yours,
>>
>>         Gregory Engels
>>         Co-Chairman
>>         Pirate Parties International
>>
>>         mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
>>         skype:gregory.engels
>>         jabber:dichter at jabber.__piratenpartei.de
>>         <mailto:jabber%3Adichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de>
>>         my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk
>>         <patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
>>         <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Patrick,
>>
>>                 Please stop this.
>>                 Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not
>>                 seeing the reality how it is.
>>
>>
>>             I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April
>>             also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,
>>             makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are
>>             members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board
>>             are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*
>>             problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you
>>                 should be able
>>                 to interpret the results, instead of making false
>>                 accusations based on
>>                 misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some
>>                 problem with the
>>                 website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the
>>                 output
>>                 pointing to google. This is however entirely
>>                 irrelevant for the Website.
>>
>>
>>             Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've
>>             pointed
>>             out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the
>>             point, as
>>             the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts
>>             on pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net>, as
>>             you could've deduced from the fact
>>             that I specifically ran dig for MX records.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 You are keeping ranting around, without considering
>>                 the possibility
>>                 that you might be wrong.
>>
>>
>>             Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,
>>             this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad
>>             hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm
>>             out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no
>>             strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as
>>             apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be
>>             in, but that's a different matter.)
>>
>>             What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending
>>             an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think
>>             journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy
>>             for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*
>>             why I'm sending this e-mail thread.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net
>>                 <http://pp-international.net> mx" which gives
>>                 you most everything about the MAIL routing to the
>>                 op-international.net <http://op-international.net>
>>                 domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to
>>                 other subdomains
>>                 or the WEB lookup.
>>
>>
>>             As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned
>>             that this issue is specifically related to the
>>             pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net> domain.
>>             Not lists.$ or
>>             lists.pirateweb.org <http://lists.pirateweb.org>. You're
>>             sending me an argument I've made
>>             myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?
>>
>>
>>
>>                 If you have something important to say, that should
>>                 stay private, use
>>                 some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only
>>                 have a false
>>                 impression of security.
>>
>>
>>             Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make
>>             their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just
>>             assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent
>>             encryption.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 that is all said. everything else is just mindless
>>                 ranting and fighting.
>>                 there is no need for this. I am not against you, or
>>                 anybody inside the
>>                 pirate movement, and we should treat each other with
>>                 the due respect,
>>                 as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely
>>                 voluntarily.
>>
>>
>>             Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.
>>             Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll
>>             lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're
>>             'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive
>>             aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration
>>                 out from google,
>>                 but then, we would miss them for other projects, and
>>                 in the end,
>>                 we would only switch from something that is working
>>                 flawlessly to something
>>                 else, without improving anything or solving any problem.
>>
>>
>>             According to
>>             <https://github.com/Pirate-__Parties-International
>>             <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>>
>>             there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough
>>             experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not
>>             a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is
>>             all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever
>>             currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost
>>             again?
>>
>>             Also, what other projects?
>>
>>             --
>>             Patrick Godschalk
>>             patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
>>             <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>
>>             GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)
>>             This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         ______________________________________________________
>>         Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>         pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
>>         <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>         http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
>>         <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
>>
>>
>>     ______________________________________________________
>>     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
>>     <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
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> ____________________________________________________
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> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/


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