[pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list

Sat Jun 15 22:13:19 CEST 2013

Guy, don't I wish you were the only one!

But as things evolve... I bet the majority of pirates does not even know what a theory is, not has the memory nor the will to analyse past (not even hours) things...

... and some take very much advantage of that to impose their organised will ;) .

There is good folks :) and bad folks ;( playing with pirate mass dynamics.

Pirates should not have to play with mass dynamics.

Antonio.

> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:50:18 +0200
> From: pirate at valio.ch
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com
> CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net; kenneth at pirata.cat
> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list
> 
> True; I forgot about that possible shortcoming with my theory.
> 
> -pat
> 
> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
> 
> > I checked, the list published his reply too :( . Should not have  
> > been if he had cancelled subscription.
> >
> > Of course, he can have unsubscribed as he told, and then sign on  
> > again just to answer.
> >
> > Or he may have lied.
> >
> >
> > Antonio.
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:29:05 +0200
> >> From: pirate at valio.ch
> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net; ningunotro at hotmail.com
> >> CC: kenneth at pirata.cat; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some  
> >> thoughts for the mailing list
> >>
> >> Not necessarily.
> >> In your previous mail you included him in the CC; he's still there in
> >> my mail here as well.
> >>
> >> -pat
> >>
> >> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > He must have signed on again just to tell you all...
> >> >
> >> > Must be pathologic, lol.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Antonio.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:59:55 +0200
> >> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> >> > thoughts for the mailing list
> >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> >> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> >
> >> > Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????
> >> >
> >> > Salut!
> >> > Kenneth
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -------- Missatge original --------
> >> > De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> >> > Data: 15/06/2013  19:14  (GMT+01:00)
> >> > A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International
> >> > -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> >> > Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> >> > thoughts for the mailing list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does
> >> > not conform to his own personal beliefs.
> >> >
> >> > Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does
> >> > seem to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and
> >> > superb example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya . Certainly
> >> > worth the Nobel Price of insult and slander.
> >> >
> >> > He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in
> >> > Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could
> >> > have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German
> >> > Pirate Party just before two crucial regional elections.
> >> >
> >> > Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead
> >> > of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the
> >> > movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and
> >> > illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well,
> >> > you all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.
> >> >
> >> > In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya Mr. Peiruza tries to paint
> >> > the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not conform
> >> > to his present beliefs...
> >> >
> >> > ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the
> >> > Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members
> >> > were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his
> >> > own agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.
> >> >
> >> > The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,
> >> > with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and
> >> > international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor
> >> > local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and
> >> > other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party
> >> > voluntarily.
> >> >
> >> > One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was
> >> > that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad
> >> > experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the
> >> > protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that
> >> > they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could
> >> > only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of
> >> > the membership of the party.
> >> >
> >> > I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr.
> >> > Peiruza that many of the original founders and initial membership of
> >> > the Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be
> >> > quite lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can
> >> > imagine why he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit
> >> > his needs. In any case... I can imagine that he would never have
> >> > found enough backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for
> >> > his and others particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.
> >> >
> >> > Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the
> >> > whole of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed
> >> > at the national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide
> >> > ways to participate in regional and local elections.
> >> >
> >> > Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very
> >> > hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain
> >> > to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and
> >> > local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than
> >> > optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees,
> >> > that difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed
> >> > no reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not
> >> > written off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote
> >> > to make important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set
> >> > their aim at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no
> >> > procedure whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be
> >> > found... expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the
> >> > Spanish Pirate Party could have participated in the Catalan regional
> >> > elections.
> >> >
> >> > THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all
> >> > difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their
> >> > regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate
> >> > Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before
> >> > being Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate
> >> > brand.
> >> >
> >> > While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he
> >> > says that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed
> >> > what he says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic
> >> > Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.
> >> >
> >> > The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way
> >> > insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he
> >> > may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the
> >> > Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited
> >> > by acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and
> >> > little realityaware members.
> >> >
> >> > For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more
> >> > and more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism
> >> > and simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M /
> >> > Indignado / Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near
> >> > communist, dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men...
> >> > for everyone to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not
> >> > know yet how to make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall
> >> > apply an intellectual lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the
> >> > dumbest. The majority of not so smart members decides, and it
> >> > decides to ignore anything it does not understand without effort.
> >> >
> >> > As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving
> >> > unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.
> >> >
> >> > And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows
> >> > like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around
> >> > to rate the previous gatherings).
> >> >
> >> > Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney
> >> > pipe up my ass ;) ...
> >> >
> >> > ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,
> >> > and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > And rules for mailing lists etc. won't  change a thing... you can
> >> > not impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to
> >> > understand why they are necessary...
> >> >
> >> > ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally
> >> > to deal with their enforcement.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If
> >> > not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat
> >> > units we try to build it with.
> >> >
> >> > Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in
> >> > our present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has
> >> > to decide what has to be done.
> >> >
> >> > We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where
> >> > everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing
> >> > to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really
> >> > serious about the Pirate stuff...
> >> >
> >> > ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth
> >> > preserving will be a futile game.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Antonio.
> >> >
> >> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200
> >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> >> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> >> > thoughts for the mailing list
> >> >
> >> > This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing
> >> > and insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.
> >> > This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at
> >> > a diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.
> >> > So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh
> >> > one (as you suggested in your  swarmwise).
> >> > If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just
> >> > unsubscribed.It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009,
> >> > but right now it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Kenneth
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -------- Missatge original --------
> >> > De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se>
> >> > Data: 15/06/2013  14:23  (GMT+01:00)
> >> > A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> >> > <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> >> > Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts
> >> > for the mailing list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> > Hash: SHA1
> >> >
> >> > Dear colleagues,
> >> >
> >> > I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was not
> >> > set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal
> >> > complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base
> >> > a complaint on.
> >> >
> >> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you
> >> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,
> >> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts
> >> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm
> >> > way of collaborating.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:
> >> >
> >> > - - Attention is reward.
> >> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something
> >> >   you do like.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,
> >> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something
> >> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to
> >> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be
> >> > nurtured by your attention.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO
> >> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a
> >> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different
> >> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but
> >> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of
> >> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing
> >> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we
> >> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,
> >> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the
> >> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to
> >> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down
> >> > your own path that you believe more in.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more
> >> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences
> >> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five
> >> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:
> >> >
> >> >  
> >> http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/
> >> >
> >> > )
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Rick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow
> >> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether
> >> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but
> >> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.
> >> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list
> >> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > - --
> >> > Rick Falkvinge
> >> > Founder of the first Pirate Party
> >> > Piratpartiet SE
> >> >
> >> > @Falkvinge
> >> > +46708303600
> >> >
> >> > Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/
> >> >
> >> > My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, it
> >> > was not sent by me.
> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> >> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
> >> >
> >> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo
> >> > yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0
> >> > =+ojY
> >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 

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